Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

  1. #1
    turbo addict looneytuner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Maryland Heights, Mo. St. Loui
    Posts
    1,582

    Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    I just discovered that some did not have a knock sensor in the intake. The wiring is there but no sensor. I'm guessing the detune of the calibration for these supposedly eliminated the need for it and they later discovered it was still needed? To prevent the check engine light from going on, they would have had to altered the programing?

  2. #2
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tuscola, IL
    Posts
    21,442

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    They wouldn't need to do anything to eliminate it. Just leave it off the car and it wouldn't know that there is knock. It also wouldn't pull timing ever either. With how into the active knock retard all of the Chrysler engineers I've spoken with are, I'm surprised that they would have left it off.

  3. #3
    turbo addict looneytuner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Maryland Heights, Mo. St. Loui
    Posts
    1,582

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    i have an early TC parts car and went to pull it off for use on another car and it just had a fancy plug. Tryingbe just checked the car he is parting and it is the same! Thanks for the quick reply. I am using the computer out of the parts car on a REALLY nice TC with 41,000 miles. I think I will check to make sure it has one!

  4. #4
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    SoCal the OC
    Posts
    6,675

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    It's not in the intake on those cars, is in a boss in the block near the front motor mount...

    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
    90 Masi 16V White/Ginger/Black
    89 TC Masi 16V Red/Ginger/Black
    86 GLHS #110 RoadRace Built 89 CSX-VNT Recaro Car
    89 Turbo Mini 'Woody' 85 GLHT 'RedBox'
    2014 Explorer DD'r 3.5Twin Turbo Ecoboost AWD and 500HP
    My profile page has over 20,000 views, I'm somebody LOL

  5. #5
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Spokane, Wa
    Posts
    9,046

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    Even on the 8v's Alan???

  6. #6
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    SoCal the OC
    Posts
    6,675

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    Even on the 8v's Alan???
    8V TC's? What's that? They made those?? I guess I just kinda figured it would be same across the production timeline regardless. Did both posters L00K down there?

    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
    90 Masi 16V White/Ginger/Black
    89 TC Masi 16V Red/Ginger/Black
    86 GLHS #110 RoadRace Built 89 CSX-VNT Recaro Car
    89 Turbo Mini 'Woody' 85 GLHT 'RedBox'
    2014 Explorer DD'r 3.5Twin Turbo Ecoboost AWD and 500HP
    My profile page has over 20,000 views, I'm somebody LOL

  7. #7
    turbo addict looneytuner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Maryland Heights, Mo. St. Loui
    Posts
    1,582

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    I looked now! the boss isn't drilled! You would want it closer to the head to detect detonation.

  8. #8
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Spokane, Wa
    Posts
    9,046

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    yea I wouldn't think the boss would be drilled. They just dropped T2 8v motors in them.

  9. #9
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    MPLS, MN
    Posts
    3,589

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    Maybe the thought by Mopar was having a detuned 160 HP 8V auto and intercooling it, a detonation sensor was... wait for it...pointless.
    Chrysler sure made some peculiar decisions detuning both the 8V and 16v TC's. Begs the question on the 16V why bother with a bulletproof unique bottom end, ultimate strength Getrag 284 tranny, killer flowing cylinder head, then run minimal boost, timing, compression, add a tiny turbo, and tractor weight flywheel? What did they gain besides 25 HP and saying that they had an exclusive 16V TC powertrain designed by Maserati and Getrag? Awful lot of R&D and expense for those minimal bragging rights.
    16V vehicles are inherently lower in torque vs. 8V vehicles, so why not just offer a 8V turbo with Getrag 568 for the 5% that perferred a manual? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they built the 16V Maserati powertrain, just don't really understand why?
    Todd

  10. #10
    turbo addict looneytuner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Maryland Heights, Mo. St. Loui
    Posts
    1,582

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    the boss on the intake IS drilled and tapped. It has a fancy threaded cap that screws in.

  11. #11
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Spokane, Wa
    Posts
    9,046

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    how about a pic or two??

  12. #12
    turbo addict looneytuner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Maryland Heights, Mo. St. Loui
    Posts
    1,582

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    Grrr...... I took a pic with cell phone figure out how to email to computer and save. It won't upload here. I am being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

    I didn't know how to email from the cell phone till a few minutes ago.

  13. #13
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Spokane, Wa
    Posts
    9,046

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    lot's of members are complaining about not being able to upload their pics here anymore. It's a fault that Frank needs to fix but seems to be ignoring.

  14. #14
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Antonio,TX
    Posts
    10,798

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    Awful lot of R&D and expense for those minimal bragging rights.
    I wonder if the Masi setup would have been released at something like 280 hp if the Cadillac Allante had got the Northstar in 1990?

    Dodge has made a lot of strange/pointless engines just from the 90s on.The Magnum SOHC 2.0, the 2.7 v6, the 3.2 v6, the 3.7 v6.. maybe another one or two im forgetting. Dodge has had a lot of good engines that could have been developed more and served more widely, but they seem to go on and invent a whole new engine with a whole new set of problems that doesn't seem to be any better in practice than a minorly upgraded version of their older engines would have been. At least with the Magnum SOHC they seem to have admitted their mistake and dropped it quickly, but the 2.7 and 3.7 lived well beyond their usefulness and turned off more people than they turned on. I guess they are off of that kick and got with the program now because aside from things they inherited from Fiat i can only think of 3 main engine families in the current lineup.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  15. #15
    turbo addict looneytuner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Maryland Heights, Mo. St. Loui
    Posts
    1,582

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    lot's of members are complaining about not being able to upload their pics here anymore. It's a fault that Frank needs to fix but seems to be ignoring.
    In my case, it's just an old geezer that can't figure it out!

  16. #16
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hazelwood, MO
    Posts
    6,566

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    Maybe the thought by Mopar was having a detuned 160 HP 8V auto and intercooling it, a detonation sensor was... wait for it...pointless.
    Chrysler sure made some peculiar decisions detuning both the 8V and 16v TC's. Begs the question on the 16V why bother with a bulletproof unique bottom end, ultimate strength Getrag 284 tranny, killer flowing cylinder head, then run minimal boost, timing, compression, add a tiny turbo, and tractor weight flywheel? What did they gain besides 25 HP and saying that they had an exclusive 16V TC powertrain designed by Maserati and Getrag? Awful lot of R&D and expense for those minimal bragging rights.
    16V vehicles are inherently lower in torque vs. 8V vehicles, so why not just offer a 8V turbo with Getrag 568 for the 5% that perferred a manual? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they built the 16V Maserati powertrain, just don't really understand why?
    Todd
    I remember a post not too long ago that went into why the 16V engine was tuned the way it was from the factory. It had to do with trying to get the feel of the European V8 luxury cars of the time, IIRC. Look at the power numbers of the time and it becomes apparent quickly that the 16V engine wasn't too much of a slouch for its time. Remember that the Mustang 5.0 was at 225hp at the most. 300hp was a darn good number from the factory back then, so 200hp out of a 4-banger was gettin' it! The Lotus Esprit was only at 228hp and the Diamond-Star cars had just come out at 195hp. The small turbo was simply for response.

  17. #17
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Antonio,TX
    Posts
    10,798

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    Well it definitely feels like a big v8 when you let the clutch out.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  18. #18
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    MPLS, MN
    Posts
    3,589

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    Maybe the thought by Mopar was having a detuned 160 HP 8V auto and intercooling it, a detonation sensor was... wait for it...pointless.
    Chrysler sure made some peculiar decisions detuning both the 8V and 16v TC's. Begs the question on the 16V why bother with a bulletproof unique bottom end, ultimate strength Getrag 284 tranny, killer flowing cylinder head, then run minimal boost, timing, compression, add a tiny turbo, and tractor weight flywheel? What did they gain besides 25 HP and saying that they had an exclusive 16V TC powertrain designed by Maserati and Getrag? Awful lot of R&D and expense for those minimal bragging rights.
    16V vehicles are inherently lower in torque vs. 8V vehicles, so why not just offer a 8V turbo with Getrag 568 for the 5% that perferred a manual? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they built the 16V Maserati powertrain, just don't really understand why?
    Todd
    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    I remember a post not too long ago that went into why the 16V engine was tuned the way it was from the factory. It had to do with trying to get the feel of the European V8 luxury cars of the time, IIRC. Look at the power numbers of the time and it becomes apparent quickly that the 16V engine wasn't too much of a slouch for its time. Remember that the Mustang 5.0 was at 225hp at the most. 300hp was a darn good number from the factory back then, so 200hp out of a 4-banger was gettin' it! The Lotus Esprit was only at 228hp and the Diamond-Star cars had just come out at 195hp. The small turbo was simply for response.
    As far as the comment about getting the feel of a Euro spec. vehicle, I don't buy it. The majority of the market was the US not Europe. In the US, torque rules. It's always been about torque in North America and still is to this day.
    200 HP was not much more than a higher performance ECU on a then currently available 2.2 TII. They already had a tranny up to the task and an improved 568 ready for production in 1990. Chrysler without a doubt went out of their way to detune the Masi 16V. 7.3:1 advertised compression ratio. Real world is more like 7.0:1 if you've ever done the math. Run lower boost levels than any intercooled motor (less 8V auto TC), and put on a tiny turbo to kill yet more HP. There is more, but you get my point.
    I know some 8V and TIII owners might get their panties in a bunch over this, but had the Masi 16V been on an equal playing field with the other Mopar intercooled engines, IMO, the emissions legal HP without a doubt would have been at least 250 HP. After enthusiasts got their hands on these engines, anyone that bolts on a normal size turbo, run the boost to 15-16 PSI, exhaust, and add fuel and you're at 300+ HP.
    Like I said why would they detune? Afraid the marketed 50+ year old buyers would wrap themselves around trees? Was there a corporate policy that Dodge had to have the highest HP 4 cylinder engine because Dodge was the performance brand? Before you guys laugh about that, think flagship Corvette and all other GM's that still to this day get in line behind it. Or was it since the Maserati engine obviously had years of R&D and the millions of dollars that accompany that already spent, was it just a decision to stay the course rather than abort? My whole point is what a complete waste of time and effort to sell 500 16V unicorns in a two year period! Then to never offer the state of the art powerplant again in any other platform tells me it was a huge sales flop and money loser for Chrysler.
    IMO, the TIV engine feels more like a small V-8 compared to a Masi 16V. That would have been the logical choice had the VNT been available in late 88 for the 89 model year.
    Todd

  19. #19
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Antonio,TX
    Posts
    10,798

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    what a complete waste of time and effort to sell 500 16V unicorns in a two year period!
    You know, in the context of dollars and cents, heads should have rolled over this. In retrospect it seems utterly idiotic.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  20. #20
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hazelwood, MO
    Posts
    6,566

    Re: Some early TC by Masi with no knock sensor?

    I think the entire automotive world recognizes the TC as a giant flop for many reasons. It's sad that it was. I'm still happy they made them!

    BTW, the VNT turbo *could* have been used (remember the '89 CSX-VNT), but I'd bet that there was a deal that the Shelby would be the only car to get it that year. Remember there was talk of the TIII getting the VNT, so it's not like it wasn't around to be tried and the TIII would have had to been in development around the same time as the Masi because the TC was supposed to have been released around '87-ish IIRC. I agree that driving a VNT is much like driving a torquey V6 or smallish V8. They are a lot of fun! I still have never ridden in or driven a Masi car...TC or otherwise, so I don't know how they drive beyond how it's been described to me! LOL

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Electronics T3 knock sensor and knock sensor harness
    By 168glhs1986 in forum Parts Wanted
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-29-2014, 05:49 PM
  2. Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-26-2013, 07:11 PM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-05-2012, 09:12 AM
  4. Knock retard without even having a knock sensor?
    By shackwrrr in forum Electrical & Fuel System
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 12-22-2010, 02:50 AM
  5. Mopar knock sensor vs. parts store sensor?
    By Clay in forum Electrical & Fuel System
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-22-2007, 12:16 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •