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Thread: E85 Tuning and what tools will help with the tune.

  1. #1
    boostaholic
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    May 2010
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    Brooklyn Park. Minnesota
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    Question E85 Tuning and what tools will help with the tune.

    Getting ready to switch my car over to e85 next season after I build a stout shortblock to handle the upcoming surge of power.
    Here is my current build.
    92 Daytona IROC R/T TIII
    MP Head Gasket, ARP Head Studs, Balance Shafts removal
    Holset HE 341, 3" Stainless Jackson downpipe, 3" full exhaust
    Spearco 1080 FMIC with 2.5" piping and 3" Cold Air Intake
    TU Billet Fuel Rail, FM ADJ Regulator, relayed 255 Walbro Fuel Pump, 76 lb/hr injectors, 3 Bar MAP Sensor
    Boostbutton Flashable ECU, tuned by me, Innovate MTX-L WBO2, both logged to mini PC
    TU 6 Puck/ Purple plate clutch. recently rebuild 523

    Here is what is changing for next year:
    Rebuilt Short Block (BC Rods, stock pistons and crank)
    Comectic MLS Headgasket
    Innovate MTX-D Boost/Vacuum Gauge (linked to WBO2 and logged on PC)
    120 lb/hr Precision Injectors
    Ceramic Coated (Ported Exhaust Manifold, Turbo Housing, Down-pipe)
    OBX LSD for traction reasons

    I have had a great year tuning my current set-up and getting very accustomed to MPTune and MPScan and I am confident I can tune this car myself.

    Here are my questions for next year:
    I have been looking into adding a EGT gauge to my car, but I am not sure if I really need it since I already have the AFR gauge. Do I need an EGT gauge?
    How should I go about tuning this? How do I know how much timing I can add with e85? Do I run to the ragged edge of knock?
    Looking for some guidance from someone who has tuned one of our cars for E85, not someone who has it sorta working, but someone who really know how to do this right!
    I want to get going in the right direction ans build some knowledge that everyone can use.
    I have the recipe here for one wicked Turbo Dodge and it has had flashes of what it can do, but I am just at the tipping point!

  2. #2
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Dec 2005
    Location
    Seattle
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    Re: E85 Tuning and what tools will help with the tune.

    E85 will be harder to interperet EGT compared to what people historically see on your engine with gasoline.
    I think EGT is something better for individual cylinder tune if you are trying to maximize something. BTW recently thought that I totally support the cheap way of running things by only having 1 sensor and doing 4 pulls, once with the sensor in each runner. I considered doing this with a wideband in each runner temporarily just to check balance and NOT for reading actual numbers.
    If you don't have individual cylinder trim then all it does is tell you when your most unhappy cylinder stops the rest of the party from getting wilder.

    E85 also makes knock interpretation foggy. Tune for power, not avoidance of knock. Power can drop off well before knock occurs when you have high octane fuel.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  3. #3
    boostaholic
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    Re: E85 Tuning and what tools will help with the tune.

    I am planning to mostly tune this car on the street, may take it to the strip a few times to fine tune it. So far I am not seeing the EGT being that helpful then for E85. I will tune for power, seat of your pants power. I could do some data aquisition do some 0-60 or 30-80 times as some sort of control on the street. Dyno time or track time would be the most useful thou. I am really curious how my set-up will respond to E85, I see how well. Jackson does with Alcohol Injection and he isnt even optimising the timing, just turning up the boost.
    Forgot to add I am going to a 4 bar MAP Sensor, so 40+ psi will be available if the fuel is there.

  4. #4
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: E85 Tuning and what tools will help with the tune.

    I converted my van to run on E85 and gained 1.1 seconds in the 1/4 mile. What pump are you running? Did you increase the size of your fuel lines? Even if you think your tank is clean, after you run 1-2 tanks through your going to have to drop the tank and change the sock because E85 will strip crud out of your tank and deposit it in your sock. You need to rig up a fuel gauge so you can read it while doing a boosted pull to make sure you have enough fuel. Fuel delivery is key. Also with E85 you can add about 20* of timing. At least I was able to on my 2.4 DOHC.

  5. #5
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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  6. #6
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: E85 Tuning and what tools will help with the tune.

    Here's what I do in MP Tune to setup a cal for E85. Should be basically the same for a TIII cal.

    1) Scale for the correct injector flow rate and fuel pressure (and MAP, should go without saying).
    2) Setup AFR lines in MP Tune for 7.0 vacuum AFR / 9.75 boost (<-- this part won't work for a TIII cal due to the 3D fuel surfaces)
    3) Add 5% to Key-on Prime PW for cold start
    4) Add 5% to Fuel Cold Enrichment A,B,C Curves for cold start
    5) Depending on other hardware mods, maybe add 5% to the pump shot PW tables also
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

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