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Thread: stumble problem wideband reads rich

  1. #21
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    BTW, I learned that the Innovate will start behaving weird when it has low voltage power supply or bad ground....long before it ever throws a code. That is NOT helpful.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  2. #22
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    This was a bad ecu rob thinks the power supply failed. Had him socket another ecu and flashed my existing tune and issue appears to be corrected.

  3. #23
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Wish there were easy repairs to be made on ECU's. I have more dead ones than good ones and they are much harder to get now. I may have the same problem with my current ECU. ECU powers my distributor and I seem to be losing synch on/off. Easier to blame the Auto Shutdown relays etc but that stuff just doesn't fail like ECU's do.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  4. #24
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Agree on the availability I'm looking for a spare now so i won't have to wait for another in the event of another failure. The ecu that failed was the original out of my 90 mini...everytime it rained i would get a stumble. I chased that issue the whole time i had the van and always assumed a wiring problem.

  5. #25
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Quote Originally Posted by wallace View Post
    Agree on the availability I'm looking for a spare now so i won't have to wait for another in the event of another failure. The ecu that failed was the original out of my 90 mini...everytime it rained i would get a stumble. I chased that issue the whole time i had the van and always assumed a wiring problem.
    It rains occasionally in Seattle
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  6. #26
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Problem came back so appears it was not the ecu.

  7. #27
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    New codes?

    Is there anything wrong under other driving conditions?

  8. #28
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    I fixed all of the codes and it doesn't set anything when it occurs. This has me stumped when it starts doing it if i let off of the throttle it stops doing it. Wideband shows rich when it occurs so to me that points to fueling. I hate to throw parts at. Any thoughts or ideas on how to isolate it are appreciated.

  9. #29
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Quote Originally Posted by wallace View Post
    I fixed all of the codes and it doesn't set anything when it occurs. This has me stumped when it starts doing it if i let off of the throttle it stops doing it. Wideband shows rich when it occurs so to me that points to fueling. I hate to throw parts at. Any thoughts or ideas on how to isolate it are appreciated.
    I dont think you can use the wideband showing rich as indicating fueling is the problem, depending on what sensors malfunction and in what way, the ECU could be intentionally but incorrectly telling the injectors to fire longer. Can you get your hands on an OTC2000 or MPSCAN? Look at every sensor and see if any of them are intermittent or have glitches, especially throttle position. There might be a problem without throwing a code.

    How was HEP wiring or the HEP itself eliminated from being a possibility?

    Can you make the stumbling happen at a standstill just by manipulating the throttle or does it only happen while actually driving under a load?

    Can you go back to the factory cal on a factory chip? Ive had part throttle stumbles on a Stage 5 FWDP cal for years and I've never figured it out.

    What condition are ignition components in? Have you checked plugs for broken insulators?

    How serious is the stumbling? At what RPM does it happen and is it very consistent or somewhat random?

  10. #30
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    ^^ TOTALLY agree, you need to see more of your input/outputs to possibly pick up a problem the computer doesn't register as an issue. TPS and possibly coolant sensor could be culprits.

    If you had any spare parts to throw at it, I wouldn't hesitate to replaced the coil and possibly the rest of the secondary ignition system.

  11. #31
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Agree it probably is a sensor malfunction or a connection that's flakey. I cannot repeat the issue unless under driving conditions it seems to get worse with heat and increased speed. I need to get a decent battery in my pc and log with mpscan to see if i can figure out what a scanner shows.

  12. #32
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Quote Originally Posted by wallace View Post
    Agree it probably is a sensor malfunction or a connection that's flakey. I cannot repeat the issue unless under driving conditions it seems to get worse with heat and increased speed. I need to get a decent battery in my pc and log with mpscan to see if i can figure out what a scanner shows.
    two other possibilities to getting a battery:

    -make/get a USB OTG cable and use an android phone running MPSCANDROID instead of MPSCAN on laptop
    -buy a cheapo DC to AC inverter a walmart and plug your laptop into for power while you are driving

    does the factory tach bounce around when the issue occurs?
    try wiggling the HEP harness wiring, both the engine and the HEP side to see if anything funny happens

    remember your BEST FRIEND is to get the problem to happen at idle/standstill..then you can see the look of fear in its eyes as you slit its throat slowly..so slowly

    and next best to that is to get ANY kind of anomalous behavior to occur at idle/standstill..its 99% likely to be related to your issue

  13. #33
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    My TPS was flaking out years ago. Just be cruising down the road at a steady 60-70 MPH and all of a sudden the WBO2 would go full rich and then back to normal. Not sure how I diagnosed it was the TPS, think I threw my scanner on it and just happened to watch it when it would say 100% even though I was maybe at 10%. Swapped it and that fixed it.

  14. #34
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    My TPS was flaking out years ago. Just be cruising down the road at a steady 60-70 MPH and all of a sudden the WBO2 would go full rich and then back to normal. Not sure how I diagnosed it was the TPS, think I threw my scanner on it and just happened to watch it when it would say 100% even though I was maybe at 10%. Swapped it and that fixed it.
    wallace you could use a multimeter to check for this, and you could check it at a standstill

  15. #35
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    You'd think that, but I did use a multimeter on it and it checked fine. It was very intermitent. Maybe it was the connection or maybe it was the sensor and it was just a small enough spot that the meter missed it.

  16. #36
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    I was sure the tps was at fault sweep was fine but I swapped another in and still same issue. I've verified the hep wiring multiple times and it checks out. I've used 3 different heps with same result. The map is a gm 3bar I've had for a long time thinking that may be getting flakey.

    AC, have you successfully logged mpscan with usbotg? I have an android tablet but had issues getting the software to load on it.

  17. #37
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Quote Originally Posted by wallace View Post
    I was sure the tps was at fault sweep was fine but I swapped another in and still same issue. I've verified the hep wiring multiple times and it checks out. I've used 3 different heps with same result. The map is a gm 3bar I've had for a long time thinking that may be getting flakey.

    AC, have you successfully logged mpscan with usbotg? I have an android tablet but had issues getting the software to load on it.
    Yes I Have had success with MPSCANDROID and you can read all the juicy details here:

    http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...ml#post3402530

    Can you switch back to a stock cal and use the stock map? Would eliminate two things at once.


  18. #38
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Update. Logged with my phone and when the issue occurs it drops the logging connection. This to me indicates a loss of the 12v supply to the ecu or the ground. Does this sound reasonable? I think the next step is to check the 12v supply to the ecu with a multimeter and see if this provides anything useful.

  19. #39
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Quote Originally Posted by wallace View Post
    Update. Logged with my phone and when the issue occurs it drops the logging connection. This to me indicates a loss of the 12v supply to the ecu or the ground. Does this sound reasonable? I think the next step is to check the 12v supply to the ecu with a multimeter and see if this provides anything useful.
    My scanner had stored a code of lack of ASD signal and that occurrence was when the car shut itself off. Shutting itself off is the newer extreme version of my similar problem.
    ECU basically "allows" your fuel pump and coil to function so if its detecting a lack of functional ASD you are
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  20. #40
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Quote Originally Posted by wallace View Post
    Update. Logged with my phone and when the issue occurs it drops the logging connection. This to me indicates a loss of the 12v supply to the ecu or the ground. Does this sound reasonable? I think the next step is to check the 12v supply to the ecu with a multimeter and see if this provides anything useful.
    ooooooh I like it you are getting closer....hunt it down!!!

    maybe try bypassing the ASD relay to take it out of the equation...just dont get into a roll over

    or try giving the all the wiring and connectors good smacks and see if you can get it to stall at idle

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