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Thread: stumble problem wideband reads rich

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    stumble problem wideband reads rich

    I'm trying to diagnose a stumble that occurs intermittently usually while cruising. When the stumble happens the wideband reads rich. If I let off the throttle or increase the stumble will usually stop. The only codes set are alt field coil open/shorted and baro solenoid open/shorted. Ive checked and cleaned grounds. ECU is bb flashable sbec and 91 harness swapped into a 87 t&c. Any thoughts on what might cause the intermittent rich condition?

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor turbo84voyager's Avatar
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    I would think a baro problem might vent the map signal too much causing it to read 0 vac boost. This would cause the ecu to richen up the mixture. Justin
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Baro is not plumbed to vacuum system but is connected electrically

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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Quote Originally Posted by turbo84voyager View Post
    I would think a baro problem might vent the map signal too much causing it to read 0 vac boost. This would cause the ecu to richen up the mixture. Justin
    There is the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by wallace View Post
    Baro is not plumbed to vacuum system but is connected electrically
    There is the fix.

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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    There is the problem.



    There is the fix.
    That would be great news. Can you explain how i should plumb the baro in? I'm using a gvalve for boost control. I was thinking it would still read the outside pressure if connected electrically. thanks for the help!
    Last edited by wallace; 10-02-2014 at 11:14 AM.

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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Quote Originally Posted by wallace View Post
    That would be great news. Can you explain how i should plumb the baro in? I'm using a gvalve for boost control. I was thinking it would still read the outside pressure if connected electrically. thanks for the help!
    Baro is a solenoid that the ECU uses to let air into the MAP sensor to read the atmospheric pressure.

    Hook it up as you would stock, listed on your under hood emission sticker or look it up at thedodgegarage.com

    Make sure you find the cause of those codes and fix them as well.

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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Ok i plumbed the baro in and attempted to start the car and it would barely idle. I bypassed the baro and with engine idling the solenoid is rapidly turning on and off. My understanding is that the baro shouldn't operate that way. Is this an issue with the ecu?

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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Quote Originally Posted by wallace View Post
    That would be great news. Can you explain how i should plumb the baro in? I'm using a gvalve for boost control. I was thinking it would still read the outside pressure if connected electrically. thanks for the help!
    Where is the gvalve?

    The baro solenoid/map sensor should be no where near it.
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Its not gvalve up on valvecover sorry not connected with baro or map.. I have manifold>top port of baro and then middle port of baro>map sensor. The baro is the left solenoid with the red plug using the wiring diagram and matching colors. The plug grommet is red. When connected as described it wouldn't idle. I now have map connected directly to manifold. When i put it back and was looking around that's when I noticed the baro solenoid was cycling.

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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Quote Originally Posted by wallace View Post
    Its not gvalve up on valvecover sorry not connected with baro or map.. I have manifold>top port of baro and then middle port of baro>map sensor. The baro is the left solenoid with the red plug using the wiring diagram and matching colors. The plug grommet is red. When connected as described it wouldn't idle. I now have map connected directly to manifold. When i put it back and was looking around that's when I noticed the baro solenoid was cycling.
    The baro solenoid should be on the same bracket as the MAP and it should have only 2 ports. The solenoid you describe sounds like the boost solenoid.
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Both of the solenoids on the bracket have 3 ports the bottom is listed as a vent. The 91 diagram on dodge garage shoes the same. Doesn't it need the 3rd port to measure outside pressure?

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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Correction - My Baro solenoid has 3 ports also. Pic below. Middle left (pass shock tower) is the MAP sensor an Baro solenoid on the same bracket...

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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Yep. Any thoughts on what might cause it to cycle like that?

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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Is the rich condition causing the stumble, or is the stumble causing the rich reading?
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Quote Originally Posted by contraption22 View Post
    Is the rich condition causing the stumble, or is the stumble causing the rich reading?
    I don't know if I look at the wideband when it occurs it's reading rich in the low 10's. It seems to me the rich condition is a symptom of whatever it is that's flakey. Going to try and find another baro in the junkyard to see if it's bad i dont see either terminal grounded on it though.

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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Is your idle speed motor behaving properly? My car that is behaving the same way except also going lean has the idle motor going wonky at times even though it will do what the scanner commands. That is why I think its just one of the symptoms of my problem. I am going to block off the idle passage when I get time.
    I am attributing my rich/lean problem to OEM adaptive features that are being funked with by whatever is broke and causing the idle motor to be crazy.

    Hard to diagnose issues when you don't know if its a cause or a symptom.
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    I figured it out. The two solenoids are boost and purge the baro is mia. Going to correct the problem I'll post with results when I get it done.

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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Quote Originally Posted by wallace View Post
    I figured it out. The two solenoids are boost and purge the baro is mia. Going to correct the problem I'll post with results when I get it done.
    FWIW, the solenoids are all the same. If you find the baro connector, you should be able to use the purge solenoid in it's place (assuming you ditched the carbon canister).
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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    Did plumbing in a baro fix your issue? I have a car that is extremely rich at idle and sputters at cruise. I have the same codes as you do for alternator field and baro. My baro was connected but I bypassed it and the car runs better with it bypassed. Car is a 87 shelby z. FWIW I never ran a baro on the van and never had an issue.

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    Re: stumble problem wideband reads rich

    I got the baro issue resolved and car quit while troubleshooting the alt issue. I sent the ecu and another to rob to check the one and build me another. I could not find anything wrong with the field circuit everything checked out. Will report back when i get updates.

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