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Thread: Lets talk about turbo vans...

  1. #1
    turbo addict
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    Lets talk about turbo vans...

    So yesterday I stumbled upon a 89 turbo mini with a STICK! It is rough... very very rough. But its a base model van with 2.5 turbo and a A555, whats not to like? Going to do some parts trading for it so its not going to cost me a dime! But since it is way to rough to ever be nice, Im wanting to make it go fast on a budget. There is a local event called "race wars" (corny I know) where a local airstrip is rented for the weekend. Its all heads up racing, no timers just a win light. They do use a tree for insurance reasons... but its essentially legal street racing. Its a blast to watch. The cars that show up are 50% NA hondas but the other half run 12 seconds or faster. Im thinking of building this can to be somewhat competitive for this event. They do it 5-6 times a year.

    So to be competitive I think it I need to be in at least the low 13's. If I gut the thing, add a T2 turbo, a decent IC, and go 3 bar with a boost button cal is that doable? Ive been out of modding 8v's for a while so I cant really remember what the vans run, I know they use quite a bit more power then the K based cars. I searched and searched but all the info I could find was for auto vans. Ive got a NX kit I would love to put on it if the 2.5 would take it. Just looking to have some fun on the cheap, Ive got piles of 8V parts

  2. #2
    boostaholic
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    Mean mini did 13.43 with the mitsu and a 70 shot of nitrous. I'd think a 5spd could do it too, especially with a Garret.
    MinivanRider

  3. #3
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    j4278h ran low 13s with a 5spd van like what you describe. There is actually an old thread over on TD where a guy did a stripped out 2.2/5spd 2nd gen van and actually went into the 12s @ ~110 on a stock garrett.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  4. #4
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    Can you do it? I don't know.

    A.J and I found out it takes a LOT to make a minivan go fast. Best we can do with 8v 2.5L with a Super 60 on 91 pump gas, at 15.0001. (He wanted 14 reallllllll bad).
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...l=1#post949354

    With 2.4 DOHC, AGP ball bearing turbo, water intercooler on 91 pump, best it can do is 14.4.
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...=1#post1032485

    After tuning for E85, we were able to push it to 13.3.
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...=1#post1035505

    All with slick tires.

    Look up AJ's threads, info are all there.
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ild&highlight=
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ler&highlight=
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...cal&highlight=



    It's going to be harder than you think.

    Is E85 available?
    What's your budget?

  5. #5
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    It takes a lot to make an AUTO minivan go fast. And even more if it's fat.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  6. #6
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    It takes a lot to make an AUTO minivan go fast. And even more if it's fat.
    Just curious, how many van have you built, or tuned?

  7. #7
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    Subscribed, My goal is 12's but my van has no interior rear of the front seats. Right now with an Intercooled 2.5 stock head, intake, and exhaust manifold with a 3 in exhaust running 20psi.
    Last time out (yesterday) It ran a best of 15.59 with a 2.53 60'. Still working on some tuning as I had the timing turned way down trying to get rid of knock that was actually bad valve springs. Im hoping with slicks and more timing I can make it to the lower 14's before I add a ported head and bigger turbo.
    Ian Adams Function>Form 1990 shadow scrapped, too rusty:( 1991 Spirit R/T Scrapped, parts sold:( 1989 Turbo Caravan Daily beater with built-[I]ish [/I]​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

  8. #8
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    It takes a lot to make an AUTO minivan go fast. And even more if it's fat.
    My van's not FAT it's big boned. Okay it's fat.

    The fastest vans recorded here are all automatics with only a ONE manual: http://www.turbo-mopartimes.com/

  9. #9
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    I think the 5spd advantage goes away in the low 12s or so, but that's just inferred from what the cars do because there isnt enough of a sample size in vans to be able to draw any patterns just from that.

    As for how many have i built or tuned, just 2. I intentionally built the worst possible 5spd caravan with the intention of proving that it was still faster than most people seem to be able to go with better parts. It's a TBI-piston 2.5/523 with mitsu, 1pc, stock injectors, stock cal, 2-bar map, mx6 intercooler (1 7/8" charge pipes!), narrow band o2, and a homemade AFPR. Tuned on an OTC scan tool with narrowband and knock counts adjusting AFPR and base timing. The other van i was involved with is an intercooled 2.5/5spd 1995 that has run 18-20psi for a while now.

    I have run the TBI-Turbo up to 20 psi without breaking anything but a clutch and charge plumbing (ZENER DIODE BABY! And tbi pistons that 'melt at 7 psi'). The only time i took it to the track i blew through the clutch the whole way down the track and went 15.6@86. It was slipping bad enough i did a 2.5 60' on slicks and never dropped below 5k rpm even though i was shifting around 5500. It was at about 16 psi and was holding on the street tires (just barely apparently). There is a guy on the turbo-mopar times page who recently went 14s@93 with a mitsu/5spd van @ 15 psi. I might point out that both Terry Ryan and Gary D both cracked 13.9@96-97 with mitsu/auto vans in the past. As far as a stock Garrett, there is a 290+whp dyno from a 2.2 Lancer out there and the 2g van in the TD thread went around 108-110mph with one. I think you are completely right about some people being able to do certain things and others not.

    My van just needs a clutch and a drip pan to go back. I keep thinking about just parting it out now for the nicer van i bought but there is a part of me that wants to run that good time with the shitty parts combo enough to put a clutch in it , race it again, and THEN part it out.
    Last edited by Vigo; 09-29-2014 at 10:52 PM.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  10. #10
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    Psst, Vigo, empty your inbox.

  11. #11
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    Just PMd you back, i did but im not seeing your pm for some reason.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  12. #12
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    Is that a direct port kit? i wanna zee what it doez!
    MinivanRider

  13. #13
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    I dont know if I can but I do things on a simple mantra... if someone else did it there is no reason I can not.

    So it looks like this may be doable. Weight is EVERYTHING, and this is a stripper van that will be gutted. That will help. The locals can not figure out why my buddies SRT motor only swapped 02 ACR neon is so much faster then similarly modded SRT's. I think you guys are right about sample size on these vans. Not enough out there to know for sure. Im not looking to break any records or really spend much money. Just wanna have some fun. I REALLY dont need another project, but am gonna kick myself if I pass it up. Might just sit on it until I get the other 4 or so projects out of the way.

  14. #14
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    I have a glhs (in resto) and a lancer and would happily trade the lancer for a good van...van fever is bad!!!

  15. #15
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    Well, i saw that Lancer before you owned it (very nice!) and as much as i would love to have it... I love my van more!
    Last edited by Vigo; 10-01-2014 at 11:06 PM.

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  16. #16
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    Vans, we got vans, what do you want.....

  17. #17
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    It takes a lot to make an AUTO minivan go fast. And even more if it's fat.
    Seems to me that the basic set of shift kit and durability mods on the auto, level things up right away. Then can go nuts with race built high stall torque convertors, but you end up on the same $$$hip with clutches.

    Depends how you build the motor though, 8V mid RPM torque monsters seem to do better on autos than 16V high revvers, especially in the heavy bodies.
    DD1: '02 T&C Ltd, 3.8 AWD. DD2: '15 Versa Note SV, replacing.. DDx: '14 Versa Note SV << freshly killded :( ....... Projects: '88 Voyager 3.0, Auto with shift kit, timing advance, walker sound FX muffler on 15" pumpers wrapped in 215/65/R15 H rated Nexens.... and a '95 phord escort wagon PnP head << Both may need to go :( ..... I like 3.0s ... so??? ... stop looking at me like I've got two heads!

  18. #18
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    Seems to me that the basic set of shift kit and durability mods on the auto, level things up right away.
    5spds have more 'gearing under the curve' and less drivetrain loss. On a stock to mild car it is a HUGE difference. All you have to do to find this out is drive them. Given that one actually runs slicks, i dont think autos 'catch up' with 5spds on the track until the car/van is pretty damn fast and is losing more tenths from shifting than it is gaining from the gearing advantage. We're talking low 12s or faster at a minimum. Im sure there are plenty of more experienced racers than myself who can comment on this. Pat or Shadow would be good ones to ask about when an auto becomes an advantage, since they can actually drive a 5spd on track.

    For all i know they may tell you that auto isnt a huge advantage for them until the 9s they havent gotten to yet. 99% of cars on this forum would be faster with a properly driven 5spd than an auto.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  19. #19
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    Well ratio wise, I thought Autos were like 2nd, 3rd and halfway between 4th and 5th on the manual boxes with stock Final Drive ratios, the lack of a tire flaying 1st is more of a benefit, and as long as the power band isn't way up over 4000 you get enough overlap between auto 2nd and 3rd...

    Edit: seems a lot of the drivetrain loss goes away with the mods also. no "two gears at once" stupidity, no grinding frictions. most TC loss is at lower RPM.
    DD1: '02 T&C Ltd, 3.8 AWD. DD2: '15 Versa Note SV, replacing.. DDx: '14 Versa Note SV << freshly killded :( ....... Projects: '88 Voyager 3.0, Auto with shift kit, timing advance, walker sound FX muffler on 15" pumpers wrapped in 215/65/R15 H rated Nexens.... and a '95 phord escort wagon PnP head << Both may need to go :( ..... I like 3.0s ... so??? ... stop looking at me like I've got two heads!

  20. #20
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Lets talk about turbo vans...

    I agree that 1st gear on street tires will not hook on these cars, but on slicks the 5spd 1st gives an ET advantage to low powered cars. Once your car can 60' 1.7 with an auto you are pretty well maxed out on what gearing (or a high rpm engine-momentum launch) can do for you in the first 60'.

    As far as the drivetrain loss, the auto does FEEL like it gets less lossy once you mod it, but serious racers often accompany trans mods with lossier torque converters as well. My current van with a ~3300 rpm stall converter feels shitty because you are basically just converting all your engine power to heat in the trans fluid below 3000 rpm and is almost guaranteed to be losing more rpm than a 'tighter' converter even above its stall speed.

    I think the biggest issue with drivetrain loss in the auto is sheer weight. Even after you leave out the clutch/flywheel/pressure plate and torque converter (which probably have similar drive loss because they are similar shape and weight), the auto trans itself weighs 30-40lb more than the 5spd. Very little of that weight is in the case design. Most of it is in parts that have to be spun by the engine.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

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