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Thread: Head Swap

  1. #1
    Garrett booster
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    Head Swap

    So I am planning on swapping an 89 head assembly on to my 87 block, and inter-cooling things soon. I have a couple of questions before I do...

    1> Will I need 10 or 11mm head bolts?
    2> Will the cam timing gear need to be switched? I believe one is round tooth and one is square?
    3> Any other parts that would need to be changed in order to make the 2 compatible?

    Thanks in adavance,
    Skunk
    Steve 1987 Dodge Shelby Charger Intercooling now 1986 Chrysler Laser XT RIP 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby T2 RIP 1965 Chevy Malibu SS SOLD! 2005 Dodge Ram Rumble Bee #3112 On to new owner 2011 Dodge Charger Rallye Gone 2013 Dodge Journey AWD DD

  2. #2
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    Re: Head Swap

    1. Both 87 and 89 used 11mm headbolts. pre-86 used 10mm.
    2. Just put your square tooth cam sprocket on the 89 head.
    3. The back of the early log manifold valve cover will have a 90° PVC fitting. You will need to change this over to the later 88+ style straight PVC fitting. Obviously wiring changes and intake manifold will need to be changed along with slip-on turbo compressor housing. Exhaust manifolds will be the same. I would use a fel-pro gasket or one that has the key-hole cutouts in between the cylinders. When you pull the cylinder head off, make sure you have an oil restictor in the block (front drivers side of cylinder head).
    Todd

  3. #3
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    Re: Head Swap

    Thanks for the info!!

    The whole head, turbo, downpipe, etc is going on with the 89 head. I never took it apart so I have the valve cover from it too, which should cover that problem. Whats the oil restrictor look like? I have never heard about that yet.
    I already have weird wiring in this 87 S/C so what should I look for there? Is this for the Air Charge Temp Sensor? If so, I already have one on my S/C which I believe is "odd"?


    Thanks again for the help!
    Skunk
    Steve 1987 Dodge Shelby Charger Intercooling now 1986 Chrysler Laser XT RIP 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby T2 RIP 1965 Chevy Malibu SS SOLD! 2005 Dodge Ram Rumble Bee #3112 On to new owner 2011 Dodge Charger Rallye Gone 2013 Dodge Journey AWD DD

  4. #4
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    Re: Head Swap

    Oil resrictor looks like a hollow recessed fitting pressed into the block. Sort of looks like a 9mm bullet casing with a hole in the bottom of it. Many cars came down the assembly line w/o restrictor install. It can effect oil pressure. You want about a .125 hole in the restrictor.
    If you have unmodified 87 Charger wiring, you will need to add 2 wires for AIS motor. This will obviously require a different logic module. You should have a external map already and BTW the charge temp wiring is stock on all log manifold cars. Virtually all custom cals are based on 87 LM wiring, so do yourself a favor and just change the wiring to that. That will enable you to run a 87 Shelby Z stock or MP stage II module as well as custom cals that are available. You will need to change out a couple pins from red to blue or vise-versa. Power loss light wire and VSS sensor wires need to be moved. Do a search for it as it has been talked about many, many, times on these forums. You will also need to remove one wire that is in harness for the shift up (fuel pacer) light. It has no function on a SC so just tape it into the existing harness.
    Also the GLHS wiring harness conversion also changed the one wire o2 to a three wire o2. I would also do that while you are changing out the other wiring.
    Todd

  5. #5
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    Re: Head Swap

    Well I started working on the car tonight to get ready for the head swap. I am starting by swapping out the original radiator for the radiator/intercooler set up. I have a question...
    My original S/C heater control valve had a hose running from the valve to the radiator. The Radiator/intercooler set up has no port on the radiator for said hose...should I just plug it up or what is the solution for said hose?

    Other than that things seem to be going swimmingly. I stopped today after getting the radiator mounted and will finish the job tomorrow. Hopefully up, running and no leaks tomorrow!

    Skunk
    Steve 1987 Dodge Shelby Charger Intercooling now 1986 Chrysler Laser XT RIP 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby T2 RIP 1965 Chevy Malibu SS SOLD! 2005 Dodge Ram Rumble Bee #3112 On to new owner 2011 Dodge Charger Rallye Gone 2013 Dodge Journey AWD DD

  6. #6
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    Re: Head Swap

    does your waterpump have a port for a water inlet? itll be at a 90 to the lower hose on the "inside" of the pump facing the trans. some are blocked of with hoses, some arent drilled, but if present, they are used to circulate the heater core water back into the engine when using that style radiator

  7. #7
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    Re: Head Swap

    Doesnt swapping the round tooth cam gear with the square tooth gear affect the cam timing?

  8. #8
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    Re: Head Swap

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniLuvr View Post
    does your waterpump have a port for a water inlet? itll be at a 90 to the lower hose on the "inside" of the pump facing the trans. some are blocked of with hoses, some arent drilled, but if present, they are used to circulate the heater core water back into the engine when using that style radiator

    Good info! I'll have to check that out later today. The hose in question seemed pretty irrelevant due to the fact that it ran straight from the radiator to the heater control valve, and there are two other hose that run to different areas of the car. but I will def have to check the pump for an available port.
    Steve 1987 Dodge Shelby Charger Intercooling now 1986 Chrysler Laser XT RIP 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby T2 RIP 1965 Chevy Malibu SS SOLD! 2005 Dodge Ram Rumble Bee #3112 On to new owner 2011 Dodge Charger Rallye Gone 2013 Dodge Journey AWD DD

  9. #9
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    Re: Head Swap

    "seemed pointless" till you understand how it works. the water flows from your t-stat housing to your heater control valve, where it either lets the coolant enter the heater core or bypass to the radiator. what this allows is some sort of coolant flow to happen, plus coolant flowing past the t-stat to allow it to open sooner.

    so the coolant is flowing "from" the control valve to the radiator...

  10. #10
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    Re: Head Swap

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniLuvr View Post
    "seemed pointless" till you understand how it works. the water flows from your t-stat housing to your heater control valve, where it either lets the coolant enter the heater core or bypass to the radiator. what this allows is some sort of coolant flow to happen, plus coolant flowing past the t-stat to allow it to open sooner.

    so the coolant is flowing "from" the control valve to the radiator...
    Well, consider me educated LOL!! That does make sense now. Could a bad control valve account for intermittent heat? Just curious because my heat will work really well sometimes, and other times just blow cold air. If this is because of a bad control valve, I'll tackle that too while I have it so easily accessible.
    Steve 1987 Dodge Shelby Charger Intercooling now 1986 Chrysler Laser XT RIP 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby T2 RIP 1965 Chevy Malibu SS SOLD! 2005 Dodge Ram Rumble Bee #3112 On to new owner 2011 Dodge Charger Rallye Gone 2013 Dodge Journey AWD DD

  11. #11
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Head Swap

    It definitely could do that, but so could a cracked/pinched/damaged vacuum line that controls it, so keep an eye out for that, when you're testing it.

    Mik

    PS since he'll be keeping the cam sprockets matched, cam timing should stay correct, I don't think the cam key way is located differently in 89 than 87,but I can't be 100% on that...
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Head Swap

    I thought the round tooth cam itself was different and if used with the square tooth gear would move it abour 4*.

  13. #13
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    Re: Head Swap

    ive personally had more problems with the heater core being plugged with junk, if you can do a "backflush" and flow hose water the opposite way of regular flow, you can get some nasty crap out of them.

    but both other problems can happen too...

  14. #14
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    Re: Head Swap

    Quote Originally Posted by wallace View Post
    I thought the round tooth cam itself was different and if used with the square tooth gear would move it abour 4*.
    The difference is between the round and square tooth sprockets, not the cam. But yes switching between the sprockets will affect cam timing.

    Barry
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  15. #15
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    Re: Head Swap

    Thanks for all the info guys! I checked the pump and the port is a no go. I have what looks like it was supposed to be one, but it faces the bumper not the trans...also it is not drilled. I believe I may have found a solution tho...I have a drain plug on the passenger side of the radiator...if I take that out and put the old port in it(looks to be same size hole) would that effectively do the same thing?

    Thanks,
    Skunk
    Steve 1987 Dodge Shelby Charger Intercooling now 1986 Chrysler Laser XT RIP 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby T2 RIP 1965 Chevy Malibu SS SOLD! 2005 Dodge Ram Rumble Bee #3112 On to new owner 2011 Dodge Charger Rallye Gone 2013 Dodge Journey AWD DD

  16. #16
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    Re: Head Swap

    the heater return needs to be on the "cold" side of the radiator, so basically the "return" side. the drain plug should be on the inlet side (upper hose) of a crossflow radiator because junk from the engine gets caught in the inlet tank, so when you drain your coolant from the drain plug the junk "hopefully" drains out.

    the reason it needs to be on the outlet side, or into the pump is because water pumps are actually more of water suckers, they move the water by creating low pressure type vacuum that creates the water flow, they don't make pressure as you would imagine with a "pump".

  17. #17
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    Re: Head Swap

    Ok...so I have been going about this all wrong...
    I started thinking today, and while that really hurt lol, I realized I have all of the parts to the 89 motor this head is off of. "Hey Steve," I said to myself, go get the Damn housing for the pump out of storage and use that!! Lol. You think that would work??
    Thanks,
    Skunk
    Steve 1987 Dodge Shelby Charger Intercooling now 1986 Chrysler Laser XT RIP 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby T2 RIP 1965 Chevy Malibu SS SOLD! 2005 Dodge Ram Rumble Bee #3112 On to new owner 2011 Dodge Charger Rallye Gone 2013 Dodge Journey AWD DD

  18. #18
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Head Swap

    If you change everything to the the 89 (common block) style, it should work, but do make sure the pump is changed and the rotation is correct, as the "common block" engines run the pump in the opposite direction...

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
    - Edmund Burke

  19. #19
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    Re: Head Swap

    Well, its been a few months but I have made quite a bit of progress, everything is now in place and ready to go. I'm only waiting on the 2 pins for the added wiring and ill start putting everything back together. Been trying to take my time on this as much as possible, but with mid 50's and 60's coming on us quick, and the track open, I really want this done.

    Really quick, as I started thinking about this water pump, I may have un-necessarily switched the pulley on the water pump. Can anyone tell me which pulley the 89 water pump should have. I have one that has a flat outside edge, and one that has the concave, grooved edge.

    Also, if anyone in the OVC area is reading this and has some pins I could steal for the wiring please shoot me a message! Would save me quite a bit of time that I don't have LOL!
    Steve 1987 Dodge Shelby Charger Intercooling now 1986 Chrysler Laser XT RIP 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby T2 RIP 1965 Chevy Malibu SS SOLD! 2005 Dodge Ram Rumble Bee #3112 On to new owner 2011 Dodge Charger Rallye Gone 2013 Dodge Journey AWD DD

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