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Thread: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

  1. #21
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    How about instead of a new caliper a new adapter to run an existing setup on our caliper mounts?

  2. #22
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by wallace View Post
    How about instead of a new caliper a new adapter to run an existing setup on our caliper mounts?
    that sounds a little more realistic lol

  3. #23
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    That certainly is a better idea, but I thought the point of this was the challenge machining something complex, but if it is to actually produce a product useful to a lot of our community, then yes, a good caliper adapter that can be used in conjunction with the '91-up uprights (due to the improved suspension geometry and the bolt-in wheel bearing) would be the way to go. I personally want to use the front brakes from a Viper. I know it's been done already (Mike Stimac has them on his Daytona), so maybe that's something that could be looked at.

  4. #24
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    That certainly is a better idea, but I thought the point of this was the challenge machining something complex, but if it is to actually produce a product useful to a lot of our community, then yes, a good caliper adapter that can be used in conjunction with the '91-up uprights (due to the improved suspension geometry and the bolt-in wheel bearing) would be the way to go. I personally want to use the front brakes from a Viper. I know it's been done already (Mike Stimac has them on his Daytona), so maybe that's something that could be looked at.
    I'm up for either! I have quite a few challenging machining projects in the wings so not everything has to be one. Plus I've always found my brakes in the Daytona to be quite good..it might be more fun if they were crap

  5. #25
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    I know that the SRT-4 brakes were a snap to use in the "L" body.
    I'd be willing to bet there'd be a similar adaptation of the SRT-4 parts for the "G".

    For the "L" body, I used the SRT-4 knuckles, calipers, rotors, and also SRT-4 Strut casings.
    I built coilovers with the casings, but that's not "necessary".
    The SRT-4 struts work in our cars with slight mods to the towers.
    The best thing is that the SRT-4 still uses the same ball joint as our cars, MOOG K7147.
    And the hub splines are also the same!
    So, the knuckle bolts right in.

  6. #26
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    I would REALLY LIKE to machine custom calipers and rotors for our cars. Of course I have absolutely no idea how to design brake calipers but man would it be awesome. Just pick how many pistons you want and let the games begin.

    If someone could just show me the rough idea..i.e. if there is any special geometries or if its all really just a straight wall hole with an oringed piston.

    For instance..there must be a way to get this info:

    1- is it known if there is a reconditioning method that involves boring out existing calipers, and does that method produce a straight walled hole
    2- is there any solid information on oring material, groove dimensions/compression (could geometry from measuring existing designs..but not sure how to get oring material)
    3- what materials should be used for what (aluminum, steel, cast?) (could see what aftermarket calipers are made of..arent some aluminum?)
    4- how big would we really want assuming only wheel size is our limiting factor
    There is some geometry involved in making sure the square cut seal works properly. In a caliper the square cut seal is what pulls the piston back into the bore a slight amount reducing drag. There is a stepped bore with a grove involved.
    Ian Adams Function>Form 1990 shadow scrapped, too rusty:( 1991 Spirit R/T Scrapped, parts sold:( 1989 Turbo Caravan Daily beater with built-[I]ish [/I]​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

  7. #27
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    I would REALLY LIKE to machine custom calipers and rotors for our cars. Of course I have absolutely no idea how to design brake calipers but man would it be awesome. Just pick how many pistons you want and let the games begin.

    If someone could just show me the rough idea..i.e. if there is any special geometries or if its all really just a straight wall hole with an oringed piston.

    For instance..there must be a way to get this info:

    1- is it known if there is a reconditioning method that involves boring out existing calipers, and does that method produce a straight walled hole
    2- is there any solid information on oring material, groove dimensions/compression (could geometry from measuring existing designs..but not sure how to get oring material)
    3- what materials should be used for what (aluminum, steel, cast?) (could see what aftermarket calipers are made of..arent some aluminum?)
    4- how big would we really want assuming only wheel size is our limiting factor
    Interesting information here Asa;

    http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...s-2pc-calipers

    Some of your questions are answered in great detail.

  8. #28
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by knownenemy View Post
    Interesting information here Asa;

    http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...s-2pc-calipers

    Some of your questions are answered in great detail.
    that was fun to read..

    I think he kinda drifts off though at the end..talking about how the material strength goes way down in aluminum with heat...what would seem to be more relevant is how material stiffness goes down with heat, not tensile strength, unless he's suggesting the calipers out there are being bent out of shape, but he doesnt make a conclusion at all from the data he mentions??

  9. #29
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    Calipers can definitely get warped with heat and pressure, something they can see ALOT of in certain road race cars.

    This is also on of the reasons OEMs like iron/steel, less liability and much better durability in the hands of consumers ... just heavy. Weight reduction has been popular lately as a means of gaining CAFE scores, so we are seeing them a little more, and I think it will continue, but begrudgingly.

    Mike
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  10. #30
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    Usually, the aluminum caliper are the ''fixed'' type but oh wait a minute!
    My CSRT4 has aluminum front caliper and it's the ''slider'' type...huge difference in the weight area.

    Viper brakes must be awesome but are they a complet swap, meaning the disk too?
    That must bring thinks close to what, at least 13'' of disk. Goodbuy 15''!!

    The project sounds like big fun but keep in mind that most of us, here, could benefits from real ''race'' compound and decent tires before planning to go all out on multi pistons calipers.
    A great percentage of drivers here runs stock coils that are cut and run oem type shocks.
    So that said, everything comes with a price.
    I'll spend $180 on front pads before spending $1k for 4-6 pistons calipers.
    But...that's me.

  11. #31
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by knownenemy View Post
    I know that the SRT-4 brakes were a snap to use in the "L" body.
    I'd be willing to bet there'd be a similar adaptation of the SRT-4 parts for the "G".

    For the "L" body, I used the SRT-4 knuckles, calipers, rotors, and also SRT-4 Strut casings.
    I built coilovers with the casings, but that's not "necessary".
    The SRT-4 struts work in our cars with slight mods to the towers.
    The best thing is that the SRT-4 still uses the same ball joint as our cars, MOOG K7147.
    And the hub splines are also the same!
    So, the knuckle bolts right in.
    Oh for sure the SRT-4 stuff can be made to work for the K-based stuff. If I'm not mistaken that is what the one company did that offered aftermarket brakes for our cars...they just had a custom adapter made to work with our uprights.

    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Usually, the aluminum caliper are the ''fixed'' type but oh wait a minute!
    My CSRT4 has aluminum front caliper and it's the ''slider'' type...huge difference in the weight area.

    Viper brakes must be awesome but are they a complet swap, meaning the disk too?
    That must bring thinks close to what, at least 13'' of disk. Goodbuy 15''!!

    The project sounds like big fun but keep in mind that most of us, here, could benefits from real ''race'' compound and decent tires before planning to go all out on multi pistons calipers.
    A great percentage of drivers here runs stock coils that are cut and run oem type shocks.
    So that said, everything comes with a price.
    I'll spend $180 on front pads before spending $1k for 4-6 pistons calipers.
    But...that's me.
    Yes, Viper brakes require the larger disc (I don't know what the minimum diameter is with those calipers, but I'm going to guess 12"). The good thing is that the disc themselves are "standard" (floating discs can use different hats). You just need to have the correct hat, which the SRT-4 hat will work on our cars. I will admit that I don't know if the different thickness discs can be used on the same hats, so that might be a hold-up, but still nothing that can't be overcome.

    Yes, most people here could benefit quite a bit by stepping up their choice of brake pads and fluid along with good tires. However, it's still a "cool factor" thing to have to big brakes. I also just want to get away from the floating caliper. That set-up sucks.

  12. #32
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by zin View Post
    Calipers can definitely get warped with heat and pressure, something they can see ALOT of in certain road race cars.

    This is also on of the reasons OEMs like iron/steel, less liability and much better durability in the hands of consumers ... just heavy. Weight reduction has been popular lately as a means of gaining CAFE scores, so we are seeing them a little more, and I think it will continue, but begrudgingly.

    Mike
    I meant more going beyond the material yield strength, which is much lower due to heat, which it seems he was suggesting but never came right out and said.

    - - - Updated - - -

    okay so lets build up a fantasy design..if we cant come up with some kind of "dream" design that would be mind blowing, then this probably wont be fun enough to draw up because in the end nobody cares lol

    my mill is 3 axis with very minor 4th axis capabilities but most likely will not be able to machine piston bores from inside the caliper..so a 2 piece design may be all I can do.or possible a 1 piece design but boring from the outside and using plugs, like he described in that article. also, I can only do billet, no forgings obviously. is all this something you'd take home to mom

  13. #33
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    I'll suggest a caliper adapter that would except a variety of aftermarket calipers, say Wilwood and/or Brembo? I think a lot of us would be pretty jazzed to be able to "slap on" a set of calipers from an SRT8 Challenger, etc.

    The Ford GT has some pretty bad-azz calipers and they are bolt on axially, which is kind of cool. http://www.fordparts.com/Commerce/Re...&n=4G7Z2B121AA

    Someone was messing around with some Audi Discs that were larger diameter, but the swept area wasn't that great because the caliper/pad wasn't very wide and was still the single piston...

    Lots of possibilities!

    Mike
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  14. #34
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    I agree...if a sort of "universal" caliper adapter could be made that would accept different calipers, either OEM or aftermarket, would be the ticket. I could be totally wrong, but having seen these types of parts before I don't think it will be all the difficult and a 3-axis would certainly work fine. Heck, they could probably be made inexpensively enough that you could probably get a decent amount of interest in them.

  15. #35
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Daytona Track Car Spindle & Hub Upgrade

    DOT3 brake fluid isn't helping anything as previously mentioned.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_5.1

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