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Thread: Upgrade my electronic options

  1. #1
    Hybrid booster
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    Upgrade my electronic options

    First let me say that I have been out of the loop for a number of years and really don't know what people are running for electronics these days.

    I've had my car pretty much since new, it's an 87 Shelby charger and I've pretty much run an old school basterdized system of electronics. It works but it's on the edge.
    Right now, I run a stage II GLHS LM that has been socketed and has some timing mods and overboost removed done by Gary D a number of years ago. Still 2 bar map......

    The car is pretty well modified and runs low 11 sec 1/4 miles at high 120's for MPH

    What are my options as far as electronics goes? I was looking at the megasquirt thingy and it looks good but what else is there? I don't want some off the shelf type of chip, if anything, I would prefer to tune on a dyno.

    So school me boys and girls.

    Thanks.

    Joey

  2. #2
    turbo addict
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    How much boost do you run to get 120mph?

    If I were you, I'd upgrade to 87 TII LM wiring or 88/89 SMEC wiring.


    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...?45009-MPTuner

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/fo...ode-Repository


    MPtuner is now available.

    You can tune LM, SMEC, SBEC yourself.

    Get a Moates Ostrich and you can tune in real time.
    https://www.moates.net/ostrich-20-th...eed-p-169.html


  3. #3
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    How much boost do you run to get 120mph?

    If I were you, I'd upgrade to 87 TII LM wiring or 88/89 SMEC wiring.


    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...?45009-MPTuner

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/fo...ode-Repository


    MPtuner is now available.

    You can tune LM, SMEC, SBEC yourself.

    Get a Moates Ostrich and you can tune in real time.
    https://www.moates.net/ostrich-20-th...eed-p-169.html

    I run low to mid 20's to achieve those mph's

    Is there anything I can do with my present wiring?

    Thank you.

  4. #4
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    If you're running GLHS wiring you'll just need to move a couple of pins and run the map where you want it and you'll be at 87 TII electronics. That's what Reeves is still running. That's good enough for me.

  5. #5
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaboon View Post
    I run low to mid 20's to achieve those mph's

    Is there anything I can do with my present wiring?

    Thank you.
    Sounds like you need a 4 bar map sensor.

    Yes, you can upgrade the GLHS wiring to 87 TII wiring pretty easily.

  6. #6
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    was reading the links on the mp tuner and it sounds cool. only thing is, I wouldn't know where to start..... This is all foreign to me, I wouldn't even know how to interface between the program and the vehicule electronics....
    I suppose I have a few years of reading to catch up on.
    to change to 87 electronics is no biggie, it's just a few pins really.

  7. #7
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaboon View Post
    was reading the links on the mp tuner and it sounds cool. only thing is, I wouldn't know where to start..... This is all foreign to me, I wouldn't even know how to interface between the program and the vehicule electronics....
    I suppose I have a few years of reading to catch up on.
    to change to 87 electronics is no biggie, it's just a few pins really.
    I think I have the ability to voice over stuff now. I'll look into doing that in the next couple of days. I'm thinking about changing the cal in my CSX for the trip to SDAC.

  8. #8

    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaboon View Post
    was reading the links on the mp tuner and it sounds cool. only thing is, I wouldn't know where to start..... This is all foreign to me, I wouldn't even know how to interface between the program and the vehicule electronics....
    I suppose I have a few years of reading to catch up on.
    to change to 87 electronics is no biggie, it's just a few pins really.
    Joey, glad you're getting back into things. You going to make it next week?!

    I will speak from experience, the change to the 87 TII electronics in the GLHS was a crazy improvement at only 12 psi. I ran 14.55 @ 97 mph on street tires with a car that was all original and 118K miles. With Bucar's help and this page, http://minimopar.net/ecu/lm-1987-t2.html, we did mine. It was very easy and we did this in the parking lot at SDAC in 2010 (20?).

    With that said, you can upgrade where needed or go to Megasquirt or Big Stuff or FAST. I have had so many electrical issues that I haven't figured out that I may go to a stand alone eventually, but for now I'm running the Turbo II electronics in my GLHS. tryingbe is right, there is a lot you can do with MPTune and MPScan and the Ostrich. That's what I'm doing now and Rob (boostbutton) did my cal. For ME, this works. Come to SDAC and we'll hash it out.
    [SIZE="3"] [B]Jon Trotter[/B][/SIZE] [B]1985[/B] Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned [B]1987[/B] Shelby GLHS, #937 [B]1987[/B] Shelby Lancer, #628 [QUOTE=Reeves;587010]I can be ready. Please send pics of wife. _____DodgeZ add comments here______[/QUOTE]

  9. #9
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    SDAC 20 indeed. We did the conversion in the dark and it fired up on the first try.

  10. #10
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I think I have the ability to voice over stuff now. I'll look into doing that in the next couple of days. I'm thinking about changing the cal in my CSX for the trip to SDAC.
    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by minigts View Post
    Joey, glad you're getting back into things. You going to make it next week?!

    I will speak from experience, the change to the 87 TII electronics in the GLHS was a crazy improvement at only 12 psi. I ran 14.55 @ 97 mph on street tires with a car that was all original and 118K miles. With Bucar's help and this page, http://minimopar.net/ecu/lm-1987-t2.html, we did mine. It was very easy and we did this in the parking lot at SDAC in 2010 (20?).

    With that said, you can upgrade where needed or go to Megasquirt or Big Stuff or FAST. I have had so many electrical issues that I haven't figured out that I may go to a stand alone eventually, but for now I'm running the Turbo II electronics in my GLHS. tryingbe is right, there is a lot you can do with MPTune and MPScan and the Ostrich. That's what I'm doing now and Rob (boostbutton) did my cal. For ME, this works. Come to SDAC and we'll hash it out.
    Unfortunately I will be travelling for work next week and won't be able to make it. Besides, I still need to finish the assembly of my transmission and get it into the car. I should be done with that this coming weekend. Once I get the car running, I'll be looking to upgrade the electronics. I'll make a list of everything I'll need and get to it within the next month or so. I'll obviously need some help so you can be sure I'll come calling.

    Thanks for the help.

  11. #11
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    One thing to keep in mine is that the very popular AEM EMS is currently without support since their forums have been down for a few months....very weird.

    They have AEM EMS version 1, newer version 2, and then an even newer version. Each series could be compared to the megasquirt 1, 2, 3, where AEM is a higher class product each time. I run Megasquirt 2/Extra and I get frustrated by the high level stuff with poor/no explanations, that and the constantly evolving firmware means the help out there gets dated and it becomes very difficult to know if you are even looking at something that matches what you are using. You pretty much have to buy megasquirt 3 if you want modern support, or megasquirt 2 extra. The answer to older problems is always to upgrade firmware until the next problem is found :P Weak traction control and boost control strategies means saving money will hurt you in that department.

    There is also proEFI. This is very very very well recommended and said to be easier to dial in. Its more than I want to spend but it has an advanced traction control and that is a big selling point. I would go proEFI if I was comfortable with the price tag. Its comparable to bigstuff3 in terms of money out the window.


    Modified OEM will be much easier to maintain drivability while optimizing WOT performance. It won't do everything but the things it does, it will probably do better.
    Last edited by Ondonti; 06-18-2014 at 09:36 PM.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  12. #12
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    Thanks for your input.

  13. #13

    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    Im new to all thus too and from what I have learned mptuner and an ostrich seems to be the cheapest/easiest setup to get running. I have a socketed SBEC, from that plug the ostrich straight in, and then run that to your laptop. Ostrich was 175. Had to buy an adaptor for mine for 35. Mptuner takes time to learn but not too bad and lots of support on these forums. If you've never tuned efi there are lots if helpful books out there to get you up to speed on whats involved, the various components, and the steps you will take. Keep in mind they are very generalized though, and discuss all types of efi systems.
    Check out boosbutton.com he has lots of options, including flashable ecus, connectors etc.
    The ostrich is from moates.com

  14. #14
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    i would suggest getting the ftdi cable from boostbutton. it will allow you to not only read/flash your ecu but use mpscan for logging. the main benefit of the ostrich is the ability to update the tune on the fly. you cannot log with the ostrich. if you have both cables hooked up you can log at the same time you make real time changes to the cal.
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
    87 Charger Shelby T2 (2.4 conversion in process)

  15. #15
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    Just my $.02, but it really comes down to what you want to accomplish and what your level of comfort with the available tuning options. What ARE you looking to get out of upgrading your electronics? Tuneability, boost level, Traction control or other features? I would look at it as 3 categories depending on what you need: Modified stock, Lower cost standalone, High end standalone.


    Modified stock - (caveat: I don't know a whole lot about this for the 4-cyl stuff)
    I have seen some turbo 4's do well using the MPtuner/Ostritch etc. on a stock ECU, and if that is all that you need, it probably would be the most cost effective. As stated previously, it shouldn't be too hard to update the GLHS and run one of the ECU tweaking programs. This has the added bonus of (usually) being able to start and drive right away without having to build a tune from scratch.


    Lower cost standalone
    Megasquirt - the quintessential budget/DIY standalone. I think that sometimes people forget that the Megasquirt ECUs (except for the EMSPro and MS-III pro) are oriented toward the DIY-er and are not intended to have the level of support or refinement that a high end EMS usually is reported to have. That being said, I personally enjoy the MegasquirtII extra that I run on the Shadow. I feel that for my needs and level of DIY/tuning understanding, it is a better unit than paying out the nose for a MoTeC, Haltec etc. Eventually I will probably go to an MSIII, but for now, the MSII is more than I need (14.308@94mph, daily driven over 60,000 miles, 30mpg+ highway). I would suggest this option if you were interested in learning a LOT (and I do mean a LOT!) about engine management, wiring, tuning, and performance.


    Greddy e-manage
    I know Ed Kelley has gotten this to work on the 3.0's so it is feasible that it would work on the 4-cylinder motors.


    High end standalone
    You get what you pay for sometimes. The more expensive Standalones may already have a plug-n-play unit that come ready to go with a base tune and a lot of whiz-bangs. I personally can't justify the costs of these units after running my MSII for 6 years or more. However, that is just me. There is probably some good reasons that these devices are used and cost what they do. Plug them in and they usually work just fine. There is the added benefit that many tuners are more familiar with the more common names than Megasquirt or the Ostritch-type tuners.

  16. #16
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post

    Get a Moates Ostrich and you can tune in real time.
    https://www.moates.net/ostrich-20-th...eed-p-169.html

    And what do you use to put the cal you come up with from the Ostrich onto a chip? Also what chips? I have some "customers" that might be interested in using the Ostrich on their cars to get a tune and then burnt to a chip.

  17. #17
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    And what do you use to put the cal you come up with from the Ostrich onto a chip? Also what chips? I have some "customers" that might be interested in using the Ostrich on their cars to get a tune and then burnt to a chip.
    The best, but not cheapest way to go would be a Burn2 or whatever is the most current iteration of the device. I've seen guys programming chips with Arduinos so that would be the most difficult, but cheapest way to do that.

  18. #18
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    The GLHS LM is tune-able, too now. With the same options as the '87 TII LM. But, it requires swapping both upper and lower chips. The cal data is all on the upper chip, though, so you can put the Ostrich in that socket if you want to do real-time tuning...
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  19. #19
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    And what do you use to put the cal you come up with from the Ostrich onto a chip? Also what chips? I have some "customers" that might be interested in using the Ostrich on their cars to get a tune and then burnt to a chip.
    I've used willem programmer in the past. They work ok, but sometimes it'll kill the chip even if the jumper settings is correct. I probably killed 6 chips.

    I got myself an used Moates Burn1 burner, never killed another chip. I would image burn2 is the same high quality burner, except more compact.
    https://www.moates.net/burn2-chip-pr....html?cPath=94

    I would ONLY buy SST 27SF512 chip from Moates. SST 27SF512 are discontinued. There are a LOT of fake chips out there that don't work. Don't waste your earn $$$ for something that doesn't work.
    https://www.moates.net/c2-sst-27sf51....html?cPath=26
    Last edited by tryingbe; 06-20-2014 at 02:14 PM.

  20. #20
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    Re: Upgrade my electronic options

    mptune supports the ostrich and burn2 devices directly. i am concerned tho if it will burn the cal correctly on the split chip ecu's. hopefully someone already has tried it.
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
    87 Charger Shelby T2 (2.4 conversion in process)

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