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Thread: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

  1. #21
    boostaholic
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    That thing runs closed loop at WOT?
    MinivanRider

  2. #22
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    I had to increase fuel by about 45% on my Shelby Z when I ran E85.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  3. #23
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    Were you going off of afr or lambda? And do you have a egt guage.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    I had to increase fuel by about 45% on my Shelby Z when I ran E85.
    then you were running it blubbering pig rich- that is way too much fuel. you only needed to add 20% more over what you would run on 100% gasoline, otherwise you're just washing down the cylinders.

  5. #25
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    Being more detonation resistant and a "cooler" fuel you don't tune it the same way as regular gas. You go off of lambda and egt. Egt is honestly the best way to tune for e85 due to it being so knock resistant.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    Quote Originally Posted by crusty shadow View Post
    then you were running it blubbering pig rich- that is way too much fuel. you only needed to add 20% more over what you would run on 100% gasoline, otherwise you're just washing down the cylinders.
    E85 stoic value is roughly 50% more fuel than gasoline, 45% sounds about right. Gas stoichiometric mixture is 14.7, E85 is 9.7-10.
    Ian Adams Function>Form 1990 shadow scrapped, too rusty:( 1991 Spirit R/T Scrapped, parts sold:( 1989 Turbo Caravan Daily beater with built-[I]ish [/I]​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

  7. #27
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    Quote Originally Posted by shackwrrr View Post
    E85 stoic value is roughly 50% more fuel than gasoline, 45% sounds about right. Gas stoichiometric mixture is 14.7, E85 is 9.7-10.
    I don't now where you're getting your information from but you are WAY off.

  8. #28
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    Quote Originally Posted by crusty shadow View Post
    I don't now where you're getting your information from but you are WAY off.
    Where are you getting your numbers and Ill tell you where I got mine.
    Ian Adams Function>Form 1990 shadow scrapped, too rusty:( 1991 Spirit R/T Scrapped, parts sold:( 1989 Turbo Caravan Daily beater with built-[I]ish [/I]​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

  9. #29
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    Alright so there is now 20%, 30%, and now 50%. How about you go tune e85 with a egt guage and you will find out. I'll put one in my bone stock neon outside of intake and exhaust and see where it is at. As stated I pulled my plugs yesterday, and there were no signs of detonation, and the plugs were a nice golden brown. Meaning not running lean enough with the mixture to burn them white and detonate cover them with pepper. And I still averaged 23mpg. 3 less than what I usually do. So if the computer can only compensate +- 25%, that means that if it was stoich has to be 50% I would be in the 17:1 range for mixture still. So if that was the case that means that my plugs would have shown it, and my motor would be melted by now.

    All in all someone's math is off, and yet my motor still runs with ABSOLUTELY no ill effects.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    When I'm on my computer I will do the math for my particular car to show you guys where I got my numbers.
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  11. #31
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    The confusion in the thread is half the people are talking about pure e85 and the others are talking the mix you made. My numbers are based on pure e85 where it needs to be 50% richer than normal. Wowzer's numbers are based on the 50/50 mix.

    Since you only ran a 50/50 mix, you were well within your computers range of adaptive fuel mixture. At WOT you would be slightly leaner but since factory computers grossly over fuel at WOT the leaning effect actually helps in your situation. Also you have the cooling effect of the evaporating alcohol and the detonation resistance that helps at WOT.


    Crusty,

    I see now your post where you mentioned running straight e85 and only adding 20% to make your wideband read correctly. Unfortunately a wideband will read incorrectly if left in the air fuel ratio reading mode. You have to run the gauge in Lambda mode to show what it is actually doing. I respect your real world testing but you should also recognize the proven scientific air fuel values that are associated with E85. Batting down everyone elses information with a big fat "no you're wrong" doesn't move us toward a helpful community where we can help each other out.
    Ian Adams Function>Form 1990 shadow scrapped, too rusty:( 1991 Spirit R/T Scrapped, parts sold:( 1989 Turbo Caravan Daily beater with built-[I]ish [/I]​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

  12. #32
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    My words exactly. All of you think I did this without doing research. I did my research extensively. That is why through this whole thread I have been stressing that you cannot tune e85 correctly without reading your wideband in lambda and a egt. E85 has a cooling effect from the alcohol. Exactly what shackwrrr was saying. It is comparable to 105 octane for knock resistance. Because of that you could in real terms lean out a mixture of straight E85 as long as you have a egt guage and decent knock detection.

    Also when everyone is adding a ton of timing when running e85 is because from what I have been reading that you are actually flooding out the motor with E85.

    In a lot of my research as well people have noticed engines running cooler when running e85. Another bonus of running e85. It also has less chances of hot spots in the combustion chamber from the cooling effects.
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  13. #33
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    To clarify, I ran mine on pure E85, using +40 injectors and scaled the computer for stock 33# injectors. Worked great. No idea what the EGT or AFR was because I didn't have those gauges in it
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

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  14. #34
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    If you look on some of the other forums, specifically the evo forums, a lot of guys are pushing stupid amounts of boost, with tuning the E85 with the wideband showing 12.5 and 12.8 with about 20* of timing.
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  15. #35
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    I personally had not had any luck mixing or blending E85, I always run it straight, my daily is a 2.5 turbo II but with no intercooler and plus 40's @ 22 psi and its 11.4-11.8 at full boost on the wideband.

  16. #36
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    Quote Originally Posted by MILKCARTON View Post
    I personally had not had any luck mixing or blending E85, I always run it straight, my daily is a 2.5 turbo II but with no intercooler and plus 40's @ 22 psi and its 11.4-11.8 at full boost on the wideband.
    Careful your car is going to blow up
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  17. #37
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    Quote Originally Posted by MILKCARTON View Post
    I personally had not had any luck mixing or blending E85, I always run it straight, my daily is a 2.5 turbo II but with no intercooler and plus 40's @ 22 psi and its 11.4-11.8 at full boost on the wideband.
    Ive tuned on e85 and always used afr to tune the fueling no egt.. I used 11.0 as the target and had good results. I scaled the injector size 40% smaller. AFR is just a measure of oxygen content it has nothing to do with the fuel type right?

  18. #38
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    Has everything to do with the fuel type. Stoich for e85 is 9.7:1. Gasoline is obviously 14.7:1. Most wide bands come tuned for gasoline. That is why we're saying lambda if you don't recal your wideband. Lambda stays the same no matter what. The wideband converts for afr for gas. Egt is probably the best way to tune e85 due to it being so knock resistant and "cool".
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  19. #39
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    I'm trying to find the link for the thread that I found on guys running 12.4 to 12.8 afr with 20* timing and 30 pounds of boost and laying big numbers down.
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  20. #40
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    Re: Decided to run a e85 blend in my Neon

    Quote Originally Posted by rx2mazda View Post
    EPIC THREAD. lol
    And now this is turning into a good thread
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