520/555 Alternative pinion bearing (HONDA bearing version)

[LaserDad]

I'm thinking that we might want to start a new thread on this, since it has grown so long. I'll leave it up to others to decide.

OK, here are some pics of the Honda bearing mod:


As you can see, the Honda bearing is very close in thickness. The outer diameter is greater and the inner is less. These are positives, because it allows us to get rid of any wear damage, on the intermediate shaft. Seeing as perfect ones are almost impossible to find, this can allow us to resurrect most of the bad ones.

Another advantage is that the Honda bearing has 14 rollers, while the original only has 12.

As I stated earlier, I won't be able to put it together for a while, but I'll post my findings. I can't imagine that there will be any negatives.

[2.216VTurbo]

Great work LaserDad I think the 'source' for sleeving the shafts we used locally went out of business in the 2008 downturn so this will add extended life to the 555's. I don't see any negatives, in fact, the Honda bearing has 14 rollers instead of 12. In theory, they distribute and carry the load at a higher capacity with the additional contact area. Bonus

[Reaper1]

I'm thinking that we might want to start a new thread on this, since it has grown so long. I'll leave it up to others to decide.

OK, here are some pics of the Honda bearing mod:


As you can see, the Honda bearing is very close in thickness. The outer diameter is greater and the inner is less. These are positives, because it allows us to get rid of any wear damage, on the intermediate shaft. Seeing as perfect ones are almost impossible to find, this can allow us to resurrect most of the bad ones.

Another advantage is that the Honda bearing has 14 rollers, while the original only has 12.

As I stated earlier, I won't be able to put it together for a while, but I'll post my findings. I can't imagine that there will be any negatives.

I'm sure it's somewhere in this thread, however for those just joining us, how much was machined out of the case and off the shaft?

It looks like it'll work well. I am a little concerned about the thickness of the bearing pocket. Being as this is a major support for the intermediate shaft, and we know that gear spreading at higher power is a problem, having the most support in that area to prevent case flex to keep the shaft from moving around seems to make a lot of sense. It's been a while since I've actually looked at a case, so I honestly can't remember what the bellhousing side looks like...it may very well have the bracing I'm thinking should be there.

At any rate...GREAT JOB!!

[Gaboon]

I'm sure it's somewhere in this thread, however for those just joining us, how much was machined out of the case and off the shaft?

It looks like it'll work well. I am a little concerned about the thickness of the bearing pocket. Being as this is a major support for the intermediate shaft, and we know that gear spreading at higher power is a problem, having the most support in that area to prevent case flex to keep the shaft from moving around seems to make a lot of sense. It's been a while since I've actually looked at a case, so I honestly can't remember what the bellhousing side looks like...it may very well have the bracing I'm thinking should be there.

At any rate...GREAT JOB!!

There is bracing on the bell housing side of the case. I'm in the process of having my case machined for a 62mm OD bearing. The original bearing is 57mm OD
In my case, I am adding weld material between the braces on the bell housing side. I'll be updating my thread with photos once I get the case and shaft back from the machinist next week.

[Reaper1]

Wow...almost 0.200" (5mm=0.197"). That might not mean jack, but to me it feels like a pretty significant amount. I'll have to lay eyes on it to really understand how that will affect things. It's more about my curiosity and my overthinking engineer head envisioning stress load paths. LOL

[LaserDad]

Original bearing = 2.25" OD
Honda beariing = 2.32" OD
That's only a 0.035" larger radius, so you aren't losing a lot from the case.

[cordes]

Wow...almost 0.200" (5mm=0.197"). That might not mean jack, but to me it feels like a pretty significant amount. I'll have to lay eyes on it to really understand how that will affect things. It's more about my curiosity and my overthinking engineer head envisioning stress load paths. LOL

There is quite a bit of bracing in that area to handle radial loads. I would think that adding some material there would make it better than new. Now if you needed to bore deeper I think you would run into a lot of trouble.

[Reaper1]

Original bearing = 2.25" OD
Honda beariing = 2.32" OD
That's only a 0.035" larger radius, so you aren't losing a lot from the case.

Wait, what? Gaboon just said he went from 57mm to 62mm. That's 5mm. Did you use a different bearing?

There is bracing on the bell housing side of the case. I'm in the process of having my case machined for a 62mm OD bearing. The original bearing is 57mm OD
In my case, I am adding weld material between the braces on the bell housing side. I'll be updating my thread with photos once I get the case and shaft back from the machinist next week.

[Gaboon]

Wait, what? Gaboon just said he went from 57mm to 62mm. That's 5mm. Did you use a different bearing?

There is bracing on the bell housing side of the case. I'm in the process of having my case machined for a 62mm OD bearing. The original bearing is 57mm OD
In my case, I am adding weld material between the braces on the bell housing side. I'll be updating my thread with photos once I get the case and shaft back from the machinist next week.

The OP is using a Honda bearing. The bearing he is using is .035 larger in diameter than the stock 57mm.
I am using an "off the shelf bearing" NUP2206 which is 62mm in diameter which is 5mm larger in diameter than stock although it uses an inner race and is the same thickness as the original so I don't need to bore deeper.
My case will be over bored 5mm total. (2.5mm per side)

[135sohc]

New thread started for the "Honda" bearing version of this fix.

[Vigo]

This is pretty exciting!

[135sohc]

I don't like the idea of not having a dedicated hardened race on the shaft end but I think realistically with a new bearing, cutting the shaft down and putting a fresh running surface on it. This could probably last another 10-15 years before its an issue again for most people.

[Reaper1]

The OP is using a Honda bearing. The bearing he is using is .035 larger in diameter than the stock 57mm.
I am using an "off the shelf bearing" NUP2206 which is 62mm in diameter which is 5mm larger in diameter than stock although it uses an inner race and is the same thickness as the original so I don't need to bore deeper.
My case will be over bored 5mm total. (2.5mm per side)

OK...NOW I understand what's going on! LOL

[Ondonti]

btw what about the honda oil slinger?

[LaserDad]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I haven't had any time to test the new Honda bearing. I have added onto my garage, so that I can have room to work over the winter, and decided to just slap a used 555 into the Laser, so that I can drive it.

I'll definitely update if I ever get it together and installed.

[83rampage]

Can you do a re-cap of what you did to the shaft. Seems to me you just had it machined down and not sleeved. Any concerns that the shaft wont hold up if the bearing surface is only surface hardened, and that hardening isnt as "thick" anymore?

Great work though.

[black86glhs]

I like where this has gone since the other thread. Turns out I have the 555 case I had been working on in storage. I thought I had done some work to it(translate that into ruined the case) but it is still usable. I have the Honda bearing but like Gaboon's idea for simplicity.

[Gaboon]

I like where this has gone since the other thread. Turns out I have the 555 case I had been working on in storage. I thought I had done some work to it(translate that into ruined the case) but it is still usable. I have the Honda bearing but like Gaboon's idea for simplicity.

My trans has been in for a while now and has been running well other than an oil leak from the seal on the input shaft....Dangit!! Stupid single lip junk a$$ seal, I should have left the used double lip on there. I don't feel like dropping the trans to replace it now.
I slowed down the leak by adding a few table spoons of break fluid to the trans fluid to swell the seal for now. I also added half a quart of Lucas trans fix to help it also. BTW, that Lucas stuff works and made the trans much easier to shift especially with the short throw shifter I installed.

[LaserDad]

Sorry, I should have posted these dimensions:

Here are the differences in the bearings:
original OD = 2.25" ID = 1.40" Shaft Thickness = 0.781" Rollers = 12
Honda OD = 2.32" ID = 1.34" Shaft Thickness = 0.785" Rollers = 14

The machinist said that the shaft seems to still have a lot of hardness in it, so there shouldn't be any problems with excessive wear.

[Reaper1]

I posted this in the other thread, but because the 2 threads have drifted apart I'm posting it here as well:

So in the course of talking about the European export minivans it was brought up that they were available all the way back in 1991 with a 5-speed mated to a turbo-diesel engine. Come to find out that the transmissions used are the A568, A588(T750), and A598(T850). After doing some looking the transmissions, especially the A568's, are dead ringers for ours with the exception that the final drive ratios are different. I also found out that the later transmissions went to using roller bearings on the input shaft and tapered bearings on the intermediate shaft! Well, I found some part numbers. I don't know how much good they will do, but I figured they are a good reference to have. Right now the availability seems to be good, but prices are on par with what we find for the parts here. I don't know if dealerships can order these here in the 'States.

A598(T850)
Front Intermediate Shaft Bearing:
MOPAR 04797336
Timken NP692885
size 31.75x65x19 (mm)

Front Intermediate Shaft Bearing Cup (race)
MOPAR 04797325
Timken NP848363

Front Oil Slinger
MOPAR 04797324

Rear Intermediate Shaft Bearin
MOPAR 04797335
Timken NP270973
size 31x65x18.25

Rear Intermediate Shaft Bearing Cup (race)
MOPAR 04856271
Timken NP372938