Grinding when going into reverse

[supercrackerbox]

Among the myriad other problems with my Charger's engine swap, I cannot get the car into reverse without grinding. I installed a new clutch and release bearing with the new engine, but the trans, cable, cable retainer, etc. are all the same. It feels like the clutch is not fully disengaging when I push the pedal. I've pulled the pedal up for the adjusting mechanism more times than I can count, but no go. I've never had this problem before with this car.

Any ideas or suggestions short of pulling the trans and swapping the old clutch back in?

[raccoon]

if its not releasing for reverse, its no doubt chewing up the forward synchronizes.

can you manually actuate the clutch? without the cable? Thats a hard one, triple check every cable connection and bracket for slack or something not clicked in. but odds are your pulling the transmission. :/

[83scamp]

What kind of clutch did you put in? It kind of sounds to me like the disc may be a little thick so when you press in on the pedal, the pressure plate can't get away from the disc far enough. Hopefully it was a matched set. Mixing components can lead to trouble. Also, some of the aftermarket units aren't know for the best quality control...

[turismolover22]

What kind of fluid do you run? They say that after disengaging your clutch at a dead stop it should only take 2-3 seconds to spin down to a stop.

Im not sure if it is the same with a charger but on some of the other cars there are two different strut tower brackets and cables to match. Be sure your car isnt the case, if this applies. Also pull the clutch cable, and pedal, and inspect the self adjuster teeth on the pedal and the cable cam. If the teeth sheared in any position on the clutch arm, that could cause a "loose clutch" symptom as the adjuster cant click up and stay up. It merely slides down until it reatches teeth not broken. Good luck!

[supercrackerbox]

Clutch is the TII/TIII hybrid set from FWDP. Previous clutch was the TII/TIII from Relentless.

Previously I'd always run Redline MTL in this trans, but Speedway was sold out, so I went with Royal Purple Syncromax this time. I run the Royal Purple in my Daytona with no issues.

if its not releasing for reverse, its no doubt chewing up the forward synchronizes.

I was wondering about that as well. With the engine off, it shifts into each gear very nicely. When running however, it's very difficult to shift into first or second. I haven't driven it past those due to other issues.

can you manually actuate the clutch? without the cable? Thats a hard one, triple check every cable connection and bracket for slack or something not clicked in. but odds are your pulling the transmission. :/

I'll give that a shot tonight. I know everything's hooked up right, although I haven't visually inspected the ratcheting adjuster on the pedal. I unbolted the bracket from the strut tower to access some wiring, but that's back where it belongs. It's the only one I've ever had for the car. Release lever pad and clip are the best I have available. I did swap the clip last night to one that's slightly less worn, so the ball isn't "sunken in" as much. I hoped the extra millimeter of tension would help, but no improvement.

[GLHS60]

As mentioned, change the fluid, to eliminate the one easy variable. I can't count how many transmission problems that I have been able to eliminate by changing lube. Synchro rattling in neutral and grinding are the most common problems that higher viscosity lube will very often cure, not just on our transmissions. I'm certainly no lube expert but I have been experimenting with oils and lubes for over 40 years and find the more expensive the lube, the more often problems arise. Many lubes that have synchro in the name often seem formulated for fiber synchros and aren't always ideal in brass synchro applications. I know spindown should occur in a couple of seconds, but it often does not, so I'm in the habit of always shifting from a synchronized gear just before reverse to stop the gear train to avoid the reverse crunch. You might find first and second more agreeable with engine oil as a lube and hopefully you can put a few miles on it to get the new clutch run in. I'm assuming your trans is a 555 with full brass synchros, not like your 1991 568 with fiber synchros.

Thanks
Randy

[Turbodave]

could be the disk sticking on the input shaft also, did you clean and grease that when the new clutch went in?

[supercrackerbox]

Cleaned, yes. Greased? Only the seal housing that the release bearing rides on, and the nylon bushings for the release lever. I've never greased the input shaft itself, and I've never had a problem before. However, running through the troubleshooting guides in my 1988 FSM, it does mention exactly what you describe. Also, I discovered there's quite a bit of play in the above mentioned bushings, which I'm sure doesn't help. So tonight I started tearing everything back apart again to get ready to drop the trans. Downside is, even if you're right, I may not be able to tell once I separate the trans from the engine. So I'm debating putting the old clutch back in. We'll see if I find anything out tomorrow night.

On the upside, since I had to drain the coolant and pull the radiator, at least I can fix the freeze plug that's leaking onto my distributor.

I'm assuming your trans is a 555 with full brass synchros, not like your 1991 568 with fiber synchros.

Thanks
Randy

It is a 555, but aside from installing the chromoly bearing plate in 2005, I've never had it apart to confirm anything about the internals. But I did have the 568 apart last summer and its syncros are brass just like the 555 we assembled for my GLHS. Nonetheless, I am a believer in sticking with what works, and I will be checking back with Speedway to see if they have the MTL back in stock when the trans goes back in.

[supercrackerbox]

Transmission isn't fully out yet, but the 'underneath' is done and the oil is drained. The whole shop reeks of gear oil. It didn't smell like that going in, and the Daytona's trans didn't have that smell when it came apart last fall. Is that a by-product of the grinding?

If so, is the oil still any good?*



*It is draining into a new, clean pan and would of course be filtered before going back into the trans.

[tryingbe]

I cannot get the car into reverse without grinding.

Are you shifting to 1 or 2nd first before shifting to reverse?

Reverse gear have no synchros.

[wallace]

Is this the same transmission that was in the car before the engine swap?

[GLHS60]

Perhaps you didn't completely disassemble the 568, inside the brass synchro is a fibre synchro.

Thanks
Randy




But I did have the 568 apart last summer and its syncros are brass just like the 555 we assembled for my GLHS. Nonetheless, I am a believer in sticking with what works, and I will be checking back with Speedway to see if they have the MTL back in stock when the trans goes back in.[/QUOTE]

[supercrackerbox]

Are you shifting to 1 or 2nd first before shifting to reverse?

Reverse gear have no synchros.

Shifting it into 2nd and then into reverse was the only way I could get it into reverse, but it was still grinding and had to be forced. 1st gear was impossible. With the engine off however, I could put it into each gear easily. Prior to this, I've never had a single issue with this transmission.

Is this the same transmission that was in the car before the engine swap?

Yes it was. This trans had been in the car and performing flawlessly since I first got the car running in 2008.

Perhaps you didn't completely disassemble the 568, inside the brass synchro is a fibre synchro.

Thanks
Randy

Well Ray (86Shelby) is my transmission go-to guy, and he took care of the cluster dis- and re-assembly, so I'll take your word for it.

[supercrackerbox]

I can't find anything physically wrong with the clutch. The disc slides up and down the input shaft smooth as butter.

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

Transmission isn't fully out yet, but the 'underneath' is done and the oil is drained. The whole shop reeks of gear oil. It didn't smell like that going in, and the Daytona's trans didn't have that smell when it came apart last fall. Is that a by-product of the grinding?

If so, is the oil still any good?*



*It is draining into a new, clean pan and would of course be filtered before going back into the trans.

gear oil ??
really gear oil , like old style 4 spd muscle car gear oil ?

if so that's likely the issue , way to thick N sticky

I had a buddy make that mistake years ago - in winter to boot
his car wouldn't go into any gear until it had idled for a good long time and got warm enough to thin the oil slightly - and then it would barely shift

try 10/30 motor oil , non syn - before you rip anymore of it apart - that's what's supposed to be in it

gear oil stinks - you prob didn't notice as it prob went straight into the trans from the bottle

gear oil , being so thick and "sticky" will cause the internal parts to continue being driven eventhough not engaged

[supercrackerbox]

No, it just smelled like gear oil. As said above, it is syncromesh oil- the same stuff I run in the Daytona and several others on this board use in their cars without issue. Either way, Speedway has finally restocked the Redline MTL, so that will be going back in it. Right now I'm more concerned with what to do about the clutch issue.

[135sohc]

gear oil ??
really gear oil , like old style 4 spd muscle car gear oil ?

if so that's likely the issue , way to thick N sticky

I had a buddy make that mistake years ago - in winter to boot
his car wouldn't go into any gear until it had idled for a good long time and got warm enough to thin the oil slightly - and then it would barely shift

try 10/30 motor oil , non syn - before you rip anymore of it apart - that's what's supposed to be in it

gear oil stinks - you prob didn't notice as it prob went straight into the trans from the bottle

gear oil , being so thick and "sticky" will cause the internal parts to continue being driven eventhough not engaged

5w30. 10w30 might work if you drive in the Sahara.

[Vigo]

Im uh.. kind of late in this thread, but what i would say at this point is look VERY closely at the front of the clutch hub (the part that the splines are cut into) for ANY sign of contact with anything.

I had a situation once where i got a clutch that the hub was either too thick or the depth wasnt set correctly relative to the rest of the disc, and what would happen is if you put the pedal ALL the way down the TOB would actually touch the hub and push it back against the flywheel. If you didnt push the clutch ALL the way down it would actually shift properly. If i'd seen this thread earlier i could have suggested trying that. I fixed mine by grinding a couple of millimeters off of it.

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

5w30. 10w30 might work if you drive in the Sahara.

lol my bad
they call for 5-30

but yeah , I always used 10-30 for both the motor and trans
worked fine in both the heat and cold of ontario

- as long as it wasn't castrol - long bad story involveing 6 motors

[GLHS60]

The gear oil story reminds me of an old 1988 S10 4x4 I had for a few winters to use around my acreage. It was a junker and leaked from the 5 speed(T-5)?? and transfer case. I drained and refilled both with 80-90 gear oil, and did the same with my A-555. All ran and shifted fine, even in the cold.

Thanks
Randy