Suspension: 'squaring' the 4 corners, How?

[ShelGame]

After I put the heim joints on my front control arms, It became obvious that the K-Frame is not centered in the car. One tire sticks out of the fender about a half inch more than the other side, and I can only get about 1 deg positive on that side, and ~0.5 negative camber on the other (I want both tires straight up, with the front end lifted slightly; for drag-race launch).

Anyway, has anyone ever 'squared' their suspension up on one of these cars?

1) How'd you do it? I'm thinking of loosening the K-Frame and seeing if I can whack it over the 1/2" it seems off. But, I'm not really sure how much play there is in the bolts when they're loose. Will I need to open them up to get it to move that much?

2) Where'd you measure to on the suspension to check the side-to-side wheelbase and diagonals?

With all the roadracers out there, somebody HAS to have done this before...

[bgbmxer]

Subscribed. My car seems the same way. Where the k frame is off to one side. Wondering if an alignment rack could be used to aid in this.

[BIGBRUDDA]

OK gentlemen, here we go. First : apparently our cars suffer from "lax" quality control. A fundamental condition of the assembly line of the times. It is not unusual to find cars that are not, nor ever were "square". My 86 Daytona measured out to be 3/8 " ahead on the passenger side. giving me 'stagger" as the NASCAR crowd calls it. And yes it turned left, better than right.I consulted with a frame guy on this. His take was to just line it up so it travels as straight as possible.
I however read the FSM over and over.That is an essential. Get a Factory Service Manual. The frame section has a multitude of dimensions, and alignment specs.
If your car is substantially "jacked" about all you can do is cosmetic,sliding the fenders around to give a more uniform appearance.
I gained the most adjustment by enlargening the rear axle swing arm mount holes. to allow some play when bolting it up. Now to the front.
The K member attaches to the front unibody via 2 14mm bolts ,and 2 14mm conical base studs. This was to allow quick fitment on the assy line . Essentially making the K "self centering".However if the studs are both at opposite tolerance. You get a kattewampas front end. I found once again that boring out the holes , or slotting them . In my case about 3/16 "each. I could use a comealong to get measurement back within tolerances.
Get a friend, a big crowbar, some large drill bits,or a round file. Four good jackstands , a good meas tape( not the floppy 0 tab kind), and a 4' straight edge. At least 2 comealongs. It will take an afternoon or more, and guys ,no beer. You'll be doin lotza "figgerin" an" measurin".

[bgbmxer]

I'd like to make sure the k frame is half square before I go get a decent alignment. Guess another project for another time. Don't wanna hijack this thread.

[johnl]

A flat floor with string on jack stands will speak to you. You may have to allow for different front and rear track but a string tied to a jack stand behind the car and that then barely touches the edge of the center of a rear tire and is extended to a second jack stand in the front of the car so that it just barely touches the edges of the center of the front tire means the car is straight and the wheels are aligned. Of course, wheels must be dead straight. I say "center" to try to take camber out of the measurement but depending on the wheel, sometimes the center hub is too "high" so you are forced to set the height of the string above that point . . . . and allow for camber. Two strings and four jack stands, all at the same time and with good light . . . .

[ShelGame]

I just did a quick measurement. I measured from a pair of holes in the K-Frame that appeared to be symmetrical (near the rear pivot on the dual pivot k-frames); to the rear trailing arm pivots. I got diagonals that are within a 16th of an inch; and Front-to-rear measurements within a 1/4". So, not bad really. Better than I thought it would be anyway.

I still want to move the k-frame as far to the right as the bolts will allow to try and get the camber where I want. Then I'll square up the measurements again.

Oh, and wouldn't you know, the frame book is the FSM I DON'T have for 1989.

[iTurbo]

Rob, is your wheelbase measurement the same side-to-side?

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

I've noticed on all the fwd mopars I've had and friends have had , the passenger front tire is always closer to the front of the fender opening than the driver's side

my 4 daytonas were like that as well as my turismo both before and after the full shelby suspension / K frame swap

it's enough further forward that the 215 60 15's I ran on my turbo z and shelby z (same set of tires) both just touched the front of the pass side front fender opening - I mean JUST touch - not even hard enough to rub the paint off the plastic where it bends around and into the opening - driver's side clears just fine

I always figured this was to make the pass side wheelbase slightly longer & that might be because it would maybe track straighter on the crown of the road

if you make a cart with 4 wheels and the wheel base is shorter on one side the cart should want to turn towards the short side even if all 4 wheels point straight ahead

with as many cars as I've seen this on I have to think it's supposed to be like that
- most were noted in the early 90's , on mid to late 80's cars that had never been hit in the front end

I have no clue as to the cast control arm cars though as my 92 had been hit or something so as to knock the wheel on the pass ft back an inch or so - I never fixed or did anything with that car so I never did see it in the correct position

I did note though that I could see a different radius in the front of the 92 fender openings compared to my 86 sitting right beside it

so the difference found from side to side at the front isn't wrong or a mistake someone's made but rather a little enginering to help the car drive better - I've always just wished they had accounted for it when they stamped the fenders

[ShelGame]

Rob, is your wheelbase measurement the same side-to-side?

It's really hard to measure. How do you know if the wheels are perfectly straight ahead?

- - - Updated - - -

I've noticed on all the fwd mopars I've had and friends have had , the passenger front tire is always closer to the front of the fender opening than the driver's side

my 4 daytonas were like that as well as my turismo both before and after the full shelby suspension / K frame swap

it's enough further forward that the 215 60 15's I ran on my turbo z and shelby z (same set of tires) both just touched the front of the pass side front fender opening - I mean JUST touch - not even hard enough to rub the paint off the plastic where it bends around and into the opening - driver's side clears just fine

I always figured this was to make the pass side wheelbase slightly longer & that might be because it would maybe track straighter on the crown of the road

if you make a cart with 4 wheels and the wheel base is shorter on one side the cart should want to turn towards the short side even if all 4 wheels point straight ahead

with as many cars as I've seen this on I have to think it's supposed to be like that
- most were noted in the early 90's , on mid to late 80's cars that had never been hit in the front end

I have no clue as to the cast control arm cars though as my 92 had been hit or something so as to knock the wheel on the pass ft back an inch or so - I never fixed or did anything with that car so I never did see it in the correct position

I did note though that I could see a different radius in the front of the 92 fender openings compared to my 86 sitting right beside it

so the difference found from side to side at the front isn't wrong or a mistake someone's made but rather a little enginering to help the car drive better - I've always just wished they had accounted for it when they stamped the fenders

I'm not so sure about that. Mine, for example, seems to be shorter on the passenger side; with the passenger side wheel sticking out a little bit. Front-to-back, my wheels are pretty close to centered In the wheel wells.

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

lol
after seeing what I described on many cars ..I'm 100% sure of it

if your wheel is sticking out further than it should would it not also be possiable it's also in the wrong spot front to back ?