No start issue.

[Mysterio]

In the process of rebuilding the top end of my 87 charger. New head, turbo, intake/exhaust. Got everything back together and assembled and had the car running/idling in the garage. Decided while I was in there before I had it back on the road I would clean up the engine bay and re-route the intercooler piping to a shorter better way. Got that all back together and go to start it up. It sputters and fires up almost instantly but only for a split second then dies out and now it won't start at all. I tried key off-on to pull the codes and it doesn't flash a single code not even the 15 55 or whatever the #'s are for start/finish.


Did I just flood out the motor by starting it and it only running for a split second then dying? I had this problem previously but never tracked it down. What are some causes for cold start dying? Last time I had this happen I went back out the next day and got it started but for the first 10-15 seconds had to feed the peddle to keep it running then when it caught up it idled fine for like 15 minutes by itself no problem. I don't want to strand myself somewhere because I forget to baby the peddle on cold start and flood the motor out if that is the case so what causes this?

On a side note the oil gauge on the car reads absolutely no oil pressure even though I know there is oil pressure. I disconnected the oil block the sensor goes into and there's oil in there. Oil is circulating through the valve cover when it was running. I replaced and it still shows nothing? I haven't had the car running since replacing but doesn't it show some oil pressure while it's cranking? Maybe not, I can't remember if it will show pressure without the car running.


I forgot I have a scanner (The cars been in the garage not running for 2 years now lol). So I'm going to hook it up tomorrow and check sensors and what not and see what it says. That will give me a much better start than blindly trying things.

[Mysterio]

Hooked up the otc and did the non running tests and every sensor except the o2 was returning volts so it's getting signals from them all. Still won't turn over after sitting. I don't understand how it runs then not at all the next time. Gonna do a compression test.

When the car is turning over if I take off the pcv valve a decent amount of smoke comes out so I assume that's combustion happening. Smells lightly of gas in the valve cover. After it sat overnight I tried and got a tiny sputter then nothing.

[Mysterio]

Whoops.

[Mysterio]

Compressions awful. 55 65 85 55. Cylinder 4 went to 110 when I added some oil. Plugs were BLACK. I'm going to change the plugs and re-check cam timing. Maybe I have it 180 degrees out for the compression to be that low. The 85 makes me think not though since it's low but not 50 low and maybe my rings are ----. Hope not cause I'm not rebuilding the bottom end of this motor. Although i dint think the cam timing is off because it ran and idled fine already.

[Mysterio]

Nobody has replied so I'm still trying things on my own lol Checked cam timing again and had it off some. Using a newer cam with a square tooth cam gear so that just exponentially makes it further off. Reset cam timing and it still won't start but I think the flywheel might have been 180* off because I didn't know there was a small dot in the notch for TDC. So for like the 12th time I'm going to recheck the cam timing and set it properly (hopefully). I also have an adjustable cam gear I need to install so I can counter-act the roller cam with the square tooth gear and have the cam not be advanced always. I'm still pretty confused how the car ran at ALL this past week when I had the cam timing off so much. Very confused by that.

I'm hoping that having the cam timing so far out of wack and the fact that the car hasn't really ran in so long that is why the compression is so low. I'm going to try and get the cam timing set properly and get the car to at least run and seat the rings and clear things out and recheck compression and see how it looks. I may just end up rebuilding the bottom end but I want to at least figure out why it won't run first otherwise I'll be right back in this situation except with a brand new motor.

[x.Gen]

yeah, likely cam timing. sometimes it will just jump even though you set it perfect. get that straight before you move on, pull the cap and do it right. I use a timing light on the cam pulley when I'm feeling lazy, but that's difficult when it won't run. don't go confusing yourself trying to offset for cam combo, just set it straight up and see what happens.

[Mysterio]

I set the cam timing again and installed the adjustable cam gear. Set it straight up and then advanced it 4* after I was sure I had the cam timing set right. Still won't turn over. I really don't think it's a cam timing related issue unless I'm being stupid and setting it improperly everytime. I was pretty confident I had it set properly last time. The flywheel was at TDC at the 0*. Cam was pointing straight up on the motor lining up with the line on the valve cover where it should. The intermediate shaft gear ended up being slightly less than perfectly left to right when I put tension on the belt but it was still in a good enough spot that I was able to get the distributor to be before the first cylinder by twisting it only slightly. It still won't even attempt to fire.

I checked and it's getting spark, my arm tingled for a bit after testing (lol). When I pull out the spark plugs there's definitely fuel in there. I have to helicoil 2 spots in the head for the valve cover because one broke off inside and another stripped the threads completely and the valve cover isn't seating properly but I think even with it not seated and having leaks the car would still rumble a bit or at least attempt to turn over?

[minigts]

I'm a horrible reader, so sorry if I missed this. Did you set the distributor pointing the rotor to #1, set the cam to #1 TDC? Pull the #1 plug to confirm the piston is TDC (use a long screwdriver to tap the top of the piston). I rarely use the gears to set the timing anymore, just confirm the #1 is TDC, mark on the flywheel is on 0 and the distributor points the rotor to #1. If all that is good, check compression again. The numbers you posted are super low. If you have spark, fuel, all you need is compression.

[Mysterio]

I'm a horrible reader, so sorry if I missed this. Did you set the distributor pointing the rotor to #1, set the cam to #1 TDC? Pull the #1 plug to confirm the piston is TDC (use a long screwdriver to tap the top of the piston). I rarely use the gears to set the timing anymore, just confirm the #1 is TDC, mark on the flywheel is on 0 and the distributor points the rotor to #1. If all that is good, check compression again. The numbers you posted are super low. If you have spark, fuel, all you need is compression.

Set the cam to TDC (I'm pretty sure). Spark plug out piston was up as the top most position, flywheel at 0 mark with the line with the small notch in it showing TDC on the flywheel not BDC.

[minigts]

Distributor pointed to number 1? Also, is your fuel injector harness grounded? I know that has caused the same issue with my car before.

[Mysterio]

Sorry yes when I set everything and got the belt on the intermediate shaft was turned slightly but I was still able to turn the distributor to line it up @ #1 I felt. The fuel injector harness is grounded with a fairly heavy gauge wire. The wiring harness is such a cluster F at this point I really need to find a replacement I can clean up outside the car or just bite the bullet and rip this thing out and clean it up. It's going to be a huge pain to clean this one up though because the previous owner had done some crappy wiring business I had to fix so its just a mess.

[minigts]

Mysterio, check the electronics thread, you can find all the wire, pins and connectors you'll need to make the harness. That may not be the issue, but if it's jacked up might want to start from scratch and build a new one.

[trannybuster]

If cam timing is way off the compression WILL show an issue....I picked up a parts car that came with a 85 T1 turbo, put rings in, new head gastket etc...and it would not start..wtf..checked compression 50's, check timing 20 times nothing....OH NO...come to find out the cam sprocket that was on it was one of the 4 position deals (for advance)...I almost took it to the lake and threw it in!!

Compressions awful. 55 65 85 55. Cylinder 4 went to 110 when I added some oil. Plugs were BLACK. I'm going to change the plugs and re-check cam timing. Maybe I have it 180 degrees out for the compression to be that low. The 85 makes me think not though since it's low but not 50 low and maybe my rings are ----. Hope not cause I'm not rebuilding the bottom end of this motor. Although i dint think the cam timing is off because it ran and idled fine already.

[Mysterio]

If cam timing is way off the compression WILL show an issue....I picked up a parts car that came with a 85 T1 turbo, put rings in, new head gastket etc...and it would not start..wtf..checked compression 50's, check timing 20 times nothing....OH NO...come to find out the cam sprocket that was on it was one of the 4 position deals (for advance)...I almost took it to the lake and threw it in!!

The cam timing was definitely off which I'm sure was wonking up the compression. However, I have it set to pretty damn close if not spot on now after re-doing it and I still can't get so much as a sputter out of it. Cranks and cranks but won't turn over. I'm out of things to try.

[minigts]

So what are you not getting, fuel or spark? Compression good now? Did you test after you got the timing set? If compression is good, you're either not getting fuel or spark. You won't get both and it not fire at all, so which is it? The commute to your house is too much otherwise I would come over and help, so let's figure this out.

[Mysterio]

There's fuel and spark. Need to recheck co.pression now that I got the timing set to what I think is proper. Been super busy and haven't had a chance to mess with it this past week.

[Mysterio]

Just an update and thanks to Keith & Jay for stopping by and helping me out. Turns out the timing was out of wack as well as it running incredibly rich on startup. Haven't had a chance to mess with it anymore but we did get it running while they were here so big thanks to them!