HkS I believe. I will have him pull the plugs. Him and I are both SBC/v8 guys, this is new territory for us, lol.Originally Posted by Tbird232ci
HkS I believe. I will have him pull the plugs. Him and I are both SBC/v8 guys, this is new territory for us, lol.
duhhhhhh WIDEBAND!
Here is a video. I was wrong, the blow off valve is not staying open.
http://youtu.be/l2r8Qq2X3Ok
you can see it kisses 16 psi, and then never reaches it again. 60-75 is really bad.
Last edited by 94NDTA; 03-28-2014 at 10:42 PM.
Found out some more info. It has an adjustable waste gate. Ignition timing is at 12 degrees. Cam timing was set when he got the motor from fwdmotion.
Wideband. Even some narrowband voltage pretend you are sorta close to accurate and overcompensate with expensive fuel voodoo.
All that money in parts and no wideband. Big mistake. I would put a wideband on the moment you start modding. Too late now to try to avoid buying one. NOBODY, NOBODY, NOBODY can retune your car over the internet to be "fast" from a description that has no quantifiable data. Not even a spark plug read.
Vendors making calibrations also rarely get a fair chance to make the car run well because people end up slapping calibrations on a car without the mods assumed by the calibration.
Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56
I fully get where you are coming from. I know he has an a/f gauge, and I know it is not the same as a wide band. It is running a tad rich, and I think he had it mail order tuned tune it slightly rich until he gets a mega squirt system (I know, don't hit me, I'm the messenger!)
i think think I may have figured out the issue. He did not adjust/preload the wastegate actuator at all. Maybe it is opening premature?
and yes, I am convincing him to get a wideband 02 as we speak!
any suggestion for a wideband?
we we both have the day off. I will supply you guys with as much info as I can. I believe his scanner can do a/f just not as accurate as a wideband.
Last edited by 94NDTA; 03-29-2014 at 11:27 AM.
Video shows he has a boost spike. Boost goes like this ^
Install wideband first, make sure a/f ratio is okay before making it fast. Replacing motor isn't fun.
All of these cars are 'slow' at <10psi and it looks like the car is staying well under 10psi most of the time. In one way this is a good thing, because it means the car hasn't been pushed hard enough to break on the non-tune it has.
I would order that wideband and just work on fixing the boost control until it gets here. It definitely has boost control issues. Can you describe the boost control system? Is it running 'wastegate only', just controlled by spring pressure in the wastegate with no air line hooked to the wastegate at all?
Just guessing off of the video, it looks like it has a boost controller of some kind hooked to the wastegate, and that there is some kind of delay being introduced in the boost controller circuit that is causing a spike in 1st gear. If that's true, it would also spike in 2nd or 3rd if you were at high rpm and no boost and then floored it. OR, there is no boost controller hooked up at all and that whole theory goes out the window..
Dont push the red button.You hear me?
I don't think I would live by Warren and not take the car to him as step #1. Talk about saving a lot of time and money in the long haul.
There is no boost controller. It is a wastegate with an air line on it, specifically the one from fwd motion. In 2nd or 3rd it will never go above 10 psi, maybe 8.
He does have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, reads 55 at idle. Vacuum reads 15 at idle. That's all the info I have right now.
Lol, I don't know the guy, and it isn't even my car. My buddy is not an internet guy, which makes it even tougher. My realm of knowledge is pretty limited to SBC's specifically LT1s and I try to help out local guys as much as I can with them, I'm just trying my best to help him out. We will see what we can figure out first, then maybe ask him if we get stuck.
i appreciate all the help here.
Just now noticed this thread. If you cannot get the car sorted out, and the owner would want, I would be glad to look at it. Only thing is, I don't live in the Fargo area. My shop is in Hazelton, south of Bismarck.
From the vid it sounds like you have a good platform to start with, just need to sort it out without breaking it. PM me if you like.
best 1/8 ET-6.16 sec. best 1/8 speed-119.70 Best 1/4 MPH 145.5, Best 1/4 ET 9.65 sec. 8 valve NO NITROUS!!
Sounds good man, I appreciate it.
Ok, so you need to figure out what is causing the boost difference between first and 2nd, 3rd, etc.
What i would do is go drive it up to like 5000 rpm in 2nd gear and make sure it's out of boost. Then floor it quickly and see if it overshoots up to 10-15 before settling around 8. If it does, i would modify the air line going from the motor to the wastegate to increase the flow so that the pressure between the intake manifold and the wastegate diaphragm equalizes more quickly. If it's coming off a tiny barb shared with other parts, you may need to move it to a higher-flowing port and/or a dedicated line.
Dont push the red button.You hear me?
Alright, update time. Pulled the plugs, they looked good,fuel 45psi at idle with vacuum line still plugged in, his MODIS read ~11 for a/f ratio at wot. Vacuum was around 15-16 at idle.
checked all the piping as best we could, and did not notice any leaks. Also checked vacuum as best we could. Car originally had an engine fire before he bought it, so the wiring harness and all the vacuum lines are new. We looked at the diagrams again and everything appears to be in order.
He set up the wastegate 2 years ago, and doesn't remember exactly how he set it up except it had a good amount of tension on it when he adjusted it.
we are wondering if it is not opening up to early. In this video, I swear I can hear it opening as it drops boost. Now, this could be something else, but I can hear it relieving pressure somewhere as it reaches 16 psi.
VIDEO
http://youtu.be/G11PcY1Dc7Y
- - - Updated - - -
We tried this, and it made no difference. It stayed at 7 or 8, just like in the video I posted when he hits 3rd.
7-8PSI is what I'd expect from a stock wastegate with direct manifold pressure connected to it. If the line has a restricter in the line, it would delay the signal and allow a boost spike while things "catch up", which may explain the behavior you see.
You might want to try a "grainger" manual boost controller, just to see if you can gain control of the boost level.
BTW, why isn't the computer controlling the boost? .
Mike
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry
Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
- Edmund Burke
It has an after market adjustable wastegate, the vacuum line goes directly to the waste gate actuator on the fender wall. I was under the impression that the computer was controlling the boost. The tune he had was supposed to be set at 22 psi max. Forgive me if I am getting any if the terms wrong.
It's hard to say you deal with SBC's and then say LT1's. Most LT1 guys (myself included) hate getting compared to the SBC. "Just put a 3/4 race cam in it and dial in the distributor. Worked on my 76 Camura", "I got a Gm Goodwrench tree fitty crate engine from Summit. Makes like fo hunnit horsepower!"
Still have the under hood vacuum diagram after the fire? The T1 and T2 cars use a different boost control solenoid and vacuum line routing to it. Wonder if it could be possible that it is stuck.
I don't think the solenoid itself is different. I think it's just the routing to it.
Not sure about 89 plastic daytona solenoid but 88 metal caged wastegate solenoid is definitely different between TI and TII. TI uses 2 barb solenoid while TII has 3-way barb solenoid. Dealing with this on my 88 CSX-T.
This boost issue is reminding me of turbos that have had internal wastegate hole opened up and even stock large can actuators inability to hold shut. Like the opposite of boost creep. The door just gets blown open because spring isn't strong enough to keep it closed.
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