propane based refrigerant

[wallace]

Anyone using this stuff?

[Johnny]

Brand?

I have used Eviro-Safe and it works great.
(not sure what it is made from)

[c2xejk]

As a general statement, I would not be afraid of using it. Back when I was in college (at Purdue) the guy that invented the first propane R12 replacement (ghg-12) talked about some of the testing he did with it to prove (at least to himself) that it was not "flammable" ( everything flammable if you get it hot enough...) He created a significant "leak" and then tried to light it with a bic lighter and couldn't. I believe he found the most "flammable" part of the mix was the oil, same oil that is in an R-12 system...

[Reaper1]

Can you even get that stuff in the 'States? I know in Canada they have it.

[zin]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/?_nkw=enviro...d=605344011023

I bought a case, and plan to re-charge the A/C in the wagon with it, from my research, it seems to be a really good choice of refrigerant, from an engineering standpoint, not so much from a profit generating stantpoint, which is why it's been maligned as dangerous, just as it was back when DuPont campaigned against it, saying its R12 (Freon) was a much safer alternative...

Funny how when the patent on Freon went away it became "evil"/ozone killer, but it just so happened that DuPont had a replacement ready to go (R134a), who's patent has expired also, and wouldn't you know it? R-134a is also considered "evil"/dangerous to the environment..., but don't fear, I'm sure DuPont has another "better" replacement on deck!

As a side note, for some reason, this stuff isn't "ok'd" as a replacement for R-12, but is for R-134a, which means to use it, you'll have to install the 134a conversion ports, no need to change/flush the oil out, this stuff is compatible with the existing oil, and the 134a oils as well (IIRC).

Mike

[wallace]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/?_nkw=enviro...d=605344011023

I bought a case, and plan to re-charge the A/C in the wagon with it, from my research, it seems to be a really good choice of refrigerant, from an engineering standpoint, not so much from a profit generating stantpoint, which is why it's been maligned as dangerous, just as it was back when DuPont campaigned against it, saying its R12 (Freon) was a much safer alternative...

Funny how when the patent on Freon went away it became "evil"/ozone killer, but it just so happened that DuPont had a replacement ready to go (R134a), who's patent has expired also, and wouldn't you know it? R-134a is also considered "evil"/dangerous to the environment..., but don't fear, I'm sure DuPont has another "better" replacement on deck!

As a side note, for some reason, this stuff isn't "ok'd" as a replacement for R-12, but is for R-134a, which means to use it, you'll have to install the 134a conversion ports, no need to change/flush the oil out, this stuff is compatible with the existing oil, and the 134a oils as well (IIRC).

Mike

The reason its not listed for r12 replacement has to do with the testing required to certify. I found a thread on slant six where enviro safe spells it all out in response to some bashing on there. I am going to order either duracool or the enviro safe for my wagon. Thanks for the info!

[csxtra]

I have been running Duracool in my CSX for close to 10 years now and have installed it in two other T-Ms and a few 134a cars and it works great. Lower high-side pressures than R134a (less load on compressor and engine), and cools much better.

Other advantages of hydrocarbon-based refrigerants:
1. Larger molecule size = slower leakage
2. Mercaptan (rotten egg smell) added to give odor indication so you can smell when you have a leak
3. Flash point of Duracool is higher than 134a (not sure about others), and as Ed mentioned above, the lubricating oil in the system is more flammable than the refrigerant.
4. Doesn't turn into an acid when exposed to water, so it doesn't corrode A/C system components.
5. Less refrigerant required in system (less flammable gas overall) 6 oz of Duracool = 17 oz R12 or 15oz of R134a

As you can probably guess, I highly recommend it

[bgbmxer]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/?_nkw=enviro...d=605344011023

I bought a case, and plan to re-charge the A/C in the wagon with it, from my research, it seems to be a really good choice of refrigerant, from an engineering standpoint, not so much from a profit generating stantpoint, which is why it's been maligned as dangerous, just as it was back when DuPont campaigned against it, saying its R12 (Freon) was a much safer alternative...

Funny how when the patent on Freon went away it became "evil"/ozone killer, but it just so happened that DuPont had a replacement ready to go (R134a), who's patent has expired also, and wouldn't you know it? R-134a is also considered "evil"/dangerous to the environment..., but don't fear, I'm sure DuPont has another "better" replacement on deck!

As a side note, for some reason, this stuff isn't "ok'd" as a replacement for R-12, but is for R-134a, which means to use it, you'll have to install the 134a conversion ports, no need to change/flush the oil out, this stuff is compatible with the existing oil, and the 134a oils as well (IIRC).

Mike

There are a few replacements on the way from what I know. I forget what I was told is another alternative that's close to 12. I think it was 404b? I got lucky and had a buddy with a jug of 12 still.

[chilort]

I tried EnviroSafe but I got the best results when I updated my compressor and H-Block to ones made for R134 and had it charged professionally. Unfortunately, I changed too many things to know which part made the difference (H-Block, compressor, refrigerant). I do know that the next time I need a compressor I'll be headed to the JY rather than getting a rebuild. My JY compressor has lasted far longer than any rebuilt compressor I've ever had.

[wallace]

I have upgraded the condenser to the later header style used with 134a. I am also going to use the drier from a later model imperial since it uses a compression style fitting as opposed to the leak prone flat plate with a single bolt. Have a new evaporator to install as well and have been on the fence about replacing the compressor while I'm at it. Anyone have suggestions on where to purchase a new compressor? I was thinking of 4 seasons.

[Reaper1]

I think it's funny how a gas that is heavier than air and is degraded by naturally occuring bacteria is harmful to the ozone. It doesn't go up, is goes down! Science FTW! It is also interesting as has been pointed out how the changing of the guard for these refigerants just so happens to coincide with patents and such.

[wheming]

I was going to go back with R-134a when I get all the a/c installed back on Mini. But I had heard alot about duracool. Sounds like I might opt for that instead. Without having much if any insulation in Mini, more cooling capacity would be helpful!

Thanks for the tip!

[turbodaytona87]

I used it in my truck just fine (might still be in there) and my jeep