Racing tonight at Wild Horse Pass (formally Firebird) in AZ

[A.J.]

Did you end up adding more timing than the SRT values?

Did you ever try running it with 8 valve timing tables? If so how did it run? I would expect it to not have enough timing.

Does A.J. have an EGT gauge? How were the temps?

I don't know, i never compared the two tables.

Yes, I have a video of it driving around my shops parking lot and it was a dog. The AdvanceFromRPM2 table on my 2.5 SOHC cal was a gradual slope where my 2.4 DOHC cal shoots up harder and faster.

No I don't have an EGT.

Ok, that makes sense, sounds like it's a combination of things... not to be critical of the tune (or tuner), but given how the timing was arrived at, it is probably a bit heavy on the amount of timing, and the 91 tune was probably a bit light, the fuel being the defining factor.

My crystal ball says the E85 tune will probably want less, but its qualities allowed more than optimum timing (at this boost level), if so what you've established is that there is much more"room to maneuver" with E85 without going "terminal" as would be the case with 91octane.

That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it! (At least until it's proven wrong, lol).

Nice job with this tune BTW, results speak loudest of all!

Mike

The E85 tune could be heavy on the timing. We'll find out when I get it on the dyno. I don't think the 91 tune is light since we took it until it knocked and backed it off. We can't add more timing.

[Ondonti]

Ethanol spools turbos much sooner. The higher the %, the sooner you spool. Seen an 800whp car spool 800-1000 rpms sooner on E98 and what that did is add 150-200+ft/lb of torque even at the same power level.
That will make your motor seem less gutless, especially when you have a bunch of timing to throw at it.

[zin]

I don't think the 91 tune is light since we took it until it knocked and backed it off. We can't add more timing.

I understand what you're saying regarding the 91 knocking and not being able to add more timing. My angle was that, due to the limitations of the 91, even though the engine (with a higher octane fuel) would make more power with more timing, you had to use less than the ideal amount of timing, whereas the E85 was the opposite, it allowed (I'm thinking) you to go beyond the ideal amount of timing, without knock, so while it wouldn't be making maximum power, and may be adding some strain to the engine by building peak pressure a bit early, it wasn't going to self-disassemble due to knock.

In short, you could make additional power with better gasoline and more timing vs the 91 tune.

With the current E85 tune, you'll likely make more power with less than the current amount of timing, odd as that may sound!

Mike

[A.J.]

I understand what you're saying regarding the 91 knocking and not being able to add more timing. My angle was that, due to the limitations of the 91, even though the engine (with a higher octane fuel) would make more power with more timing, you had to use less than the ideal amount of timing, whereas the E85 was the opposite, it allowed (I'm thinking) you to go beyond the ideal amount of timing, without knock, so while it wouldn't be making maximum power, and may be adding some strain to the engine by building peak pressure a bit early, it wasn't going to self-disassemble due to knock.

In short, you could make additional power with better gasoline and more timing vs the 91 tune.

With the current E85 tune, you'll likely make more power with less than the current amount of timing, odd as that may sound!

Mike

I understand what your saying. It's just like dialing in cams. Ya it'll run but there is a sweet spot for maximum power. I'll find out when I dyno tune it.

[A.J.]

I'll be racing tonight at Wild Horse. I was hoping to crack 12's but I'm having a hard time getting it to 20 lbs of boost without breaking up. I had to regap my plugs four times last night chasing spark blow out (now at .030") and I was really careful but I might have damaged the wires because they're so tight on the plugs. I need to come up with something better. I can run 18 lbs of boost which is more than I was running to score my 13.5 run.

I also replaced my AGP twin scroll exhaust manifold because I got it really hot and cracked it. I now have one that's ceramic coated inside and out. The last one was only ceramic coated on the outside. It was also warped where the waste gate mounts and was holding it open. My turbo to exhaust manifold gasket was also blown so I fixed two before the turbo exhaust leaks. I also upgraded the twin scroll turbine housing from a .75 AR to a 1.0 AR and that too is ceramic coated inside and out. I'm borrowing a friends Accel coil that's allowing me to run a larger gap than last time. I also installed a Ford V8 air box that is 47% bigger than the V6 one I was using last time.

When I crack 12's I'm going to put this on my van:

[A.J.]

305 whp and 365 wtq + 3600 lb mini-van = 12.6 in the 1/4 mile. I am beyond thrilled with this.

[acannell]

305 whp and 365 wtq + 3600 lb mini-van = 12.6 in the 1/4 mile. I am beyond thrilled with this.

Very nice!!! That is truly an accomplishment! No video????

[A.J.]

12.6 second run.



Beating a Mustang



Beating a Corvette



Beating the same Corvette again. After the second time we saw him leaving the property.

[turbovanman²]

Awesome, way to go,

Why was the van getting slower? What did you find wrong with your setup/tune?

[A.J.]

Awesome, way to go,

Why was the van getting slower? What did you find wrong with your setup/tune?

The 13 second run I was drifting to the left so I had to let off a little. The 12.8 runs are probably due to the fact I'm a very inconsistent driver. My intake air temp were low so it wasn't that. I was also having a hard time getting my slicks to keep spinning to get them hot so that might have had a little to do with it.

[2.216VTurbo]

Awesome AJ Was there a scale at the track to get a weight? Finally hitting its potential Nice 60' and great MPH! Props to the camera person as well, better than 95% of the YouTube strip passes

[turbovanman²]

And your lack of power?

[turboshelbys]

And your lack of power?

what a cheap shot, try to keep the gloves above the waistline lol

[turbovanman²]

LOL, wasn't a cheap shot, trying to found out the reason but he's dodging it,

[A.J.]

Awesome AJ Was there a scale at the track to get a weight? Finally hitting its potential Nice 60' and great MPH! Props to the camera person as well, better than 95% of the YouTube strip passes

No scale at the track (at least what I could see) but I used the scale at the metal recyclers and it was between 3600-3700 lbs. After removing the rear seats, spare tire, heavier front tires and rims for lighter slicks and rims I estimate it at about 3600 lbs.

LOL, wasn't a cheap shot, trying to found out the reason but he's dodging it,

I don't know what my lack of power was/is. I still think I'm lower, hp wise, then I should be but I'm basing that on what others have gotten from the 2.4 compared to what I'm getting. But with 12.6, I'm more impressed/satisfied with that than what the dyno says which is 305 whp/365 wtq. I could have 600 whp but if I can't get it to the ground and I'm running 14's who the ---- cares what's at the flywheel.

A friend of mine and I spent two days street tuning my knock scale, what is knock and what to ignore. Then when I was dyno tuning, the dyno operator/owner messed with my timing tables a lot. He also found a problem with my rev limiter tables. They were set to "progressive" limiter which pulls timing as you approach the rev limit. So now it's adjusted to cut spark and fuel when I hit the rev limiter.

When it comes to tuning I really don't know what I'm doing. I'm surprised I've gotten as far as I've had but I've also had help along the way. I'm better at building than I am at tuning.

[turboshelbys]

LOL, wasn't a cheap shot, trying to found out the reason but he's dodging it,

I know brother, was just funnin

[turboshelbys]

No scale at the track (at least what I could see) but I used the scale at the metal recyclers and it was between 3600-3700 lbs. After removing the rear seats, spare tire, heavier front tires and rims for lighter slicks and rims I estimate it at about 3600 lbs.



I don't know what my lack of power was/is. I still think I'm lower, hp wise, then I should be but I'm basing that on what others have gotten from the 2.4 compared to what I'm getting. But with 12.6, I'm more impressed/satisfied with that than what the dyno says which is 305 whp/365 wtq. I could have 600 whp but if I can't get it to the ground and I'm running 14's who the ---- cares what's at the flywheel.

A friend of mine and I spent two days street tuning my knock scale, what is knock and what to ignore. Then when I was dyno tuning, the dyno operator/owner messed with my timing tables a lot. He also found a problem with my rev limiter tables. They were set to "progressive" limiter which pulls timing as you approach the rev limit. So now it's adjusted to cut spark and fuel when I hit the rev limiter.

When it comes to tuning I really don't know what I'm doing. I'm surprised I've gotten as far as I've had but I've also had help along the way. I'm better at building than I am at tuning.

not sure about the dyno #'s especially with the automatic. In my experience on the dyno, the auto's always show a lower hp level then what they are really at. I would put you around 350-360whp level.

[Shadow]

Very nice, that's a Killer 330" for a van BTW

[turbovanman²]

Gotcha. I agree, the timeslip is for bragging rights. Wasn't there a saying about dyno numbers are for queens or something.

Keep at it A.J. You gave me the kick in the azz I needed.

Also, don't worry about tuning, just keep playing, I had to learn too, carbs and dizzy's are easy to tune. I am still learning and going to have to learn more when I switch to E85.

[Ondonti]

Record any datalogs?