Wheel Hop Discussion

[jefo]

Bringing this thread back. I think I have found what can be allowing the wheel-hop. The strut mounts have a decent amount of movement, though they are only a year or two old (They had this movement since they were new).

Does anyone know of strut mounts with harder rubber? To minimize movement. The ones I have are Monroe.

I'm thinking the mount is acting like an rubber band, letting the wheels bounce undamped. The video doesn't show the full amount of movement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN1jNZMX7yQ

Thoughts?

[Force Fed Mopar]

Sensa-tracs are turds, they don't dampen my eibachs on the Lebaron properly even in normal driving. Only had a few instances of wheel hop on them on the street (one instance broke an axle), but had a lot of wheel hop issues at the track on street tires.

IMO struts are the major player in reducing wheel hop. If the strut isn't strong enough, it will wheel hop regardless of the regardless of the things you do. Alignment and bushing condition/quality are the next most important.

[contraption22]

Sensa-tracs are turds, they don't dampen my eibachs on the Lebaron properly even in normal driving. Only had a few instances of wheel hop on them on the street (one instance broke an axle), but had a lot of wheel hop issues at the track on street tires.

I wouldn't blame that entirely on the struts. They are engineered for to give a good ride and control on a stock spring. They worked great on my Acclaim with stock springs. Every car I have ever rode in with Eibach springs and stock-replacement type struts felt like crap.

[GLHS60]

I had many years of wheel hop on my GLH. Changed every posible bushing, beefed up the sway bar, changed tires, centered engine, loaded the rear mount and still had wheel hop. I looked at every posible thing to change. Changed the rear springs and voilà! No more hopping. My reasoning was that he car would squat just enough during launch that the front rising would let the front tires hang just enough to have the tie-rod pull the tires in a toe out position. The tires wanting to track out would hop because of the load. If your leaf springs are weak that could be the cause. Try removing both row of seats in the back and see if there is any change.

Just noticed your old reply but find it interesting.

I got a photo radar picture of my Omni a few years back accelerating and was surprised at how much it looked to be squatting in the rear.

Never thought in might contribute to wheel hop but I follow your logic.

Thanks
Randy

[Reaper1]

Bringing this thread back. I think I have found what can be allowing the wheel-hop. The strut mounts have a decent amount of movement, though they are only a year or two old (They had this movement since they were new).

Does anyone know of strut mounts with harder rubber? To minimize movement. The ones I have are Monroe.

I'm thinking the mount is acting like an rubber band, letting the wheels bounce undamped. The video doesn't show the full amount of movement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN1jNZMX7yQ

Thoughts?

Try Rich Bryant. His camber plates/strut mounts are solid pillow-ball design.

I wouldn't blame that entirely on the struts. They are engineered for to give a good ride and control on a stock spring. They worked great on my Acclaim with stock springs. Every car I have ever rode in with Eibach springs and stock-replacement type struts felt like crap.

I ran Sensa-Craps on my '90 Daytona with stock springs on it...that thing rode and handled like utter sh*t! At the time I had spent a stupid amount of money to rebuild the suspension and I didn't know enough to buy the truly good stuff (it was still widely available back then), so I just lived with it. The car pounded over expansion joints and such like that, but dive into a corner and it leaned over like a bus! I even had different sets of tires on it during the time I had that set-up on the car. From my own personal experience and from the reviews of others, I don't even consider those units for others (including other types of vehicles). Basically...they acted backwards of what I wanted/expected.

[Vigo]

I got a photo radar picture of my Omni a few years back accelerating and was surprised at how much it looked to be squatting in the rear.

Never thought in might contribute to wheel hop but I follow your logic.

I am guessing that the changing angle of the lower control arm relative to the ground is more of an issue than the toe angle. If you exaggerate the angle in your head (picture the lower control arm being rotated closer and closer to vertical instead of parallel to the ground) its easy to picture that the tires would essentially 'pull' the lower control arm 'down' which would actually unload pressure from the spring off of the tire and possibly cause the loss of traction and cycle of events that is wheel hop. This would be an easy theory to test by loosening all the kframe bolts and installing spacers between the front mounts and body to compensate for the rotation of the body during rear squat and see if the problem is lessened.

[tryingbe]

Bringing this thread back. I think I have found what can be allowing the wheel-hop. The strut mounts have a decent amount of movement, though they are only a year or two old (They had this movement since they were new).

Does anyone know of strut mounts with harder rubber? To minimize movement

Camber plates. I had to experiment with parts to make something work.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...r-improvements

[GLHS60]

I am guessing that the changing angle of the lower control arm relative to the ground is more of an issue than the toe angle. If you exaggerate the angle in your head (picture the lower control arm being rotated closer and closer to vertical instead of parallel to the ground) its easy to picture that the tires would essentially 'pull' the lower control arm 'down' which would actually unload pressure from the spring off of the tire and possibly cause the loss of traction and cycle of events that is wheel hop. This would be an easy theory to test by loosening all the kframe bolts and installing spacers between the front mounts and body to compensate for the rotation of the body during rear squat and see if the problem is lessened.

Right, this I believe is the theory behind Brian Slowe's tubular K with relocated control arm mounts.

My car had a tendency to hop from brand new so I was easy on it and wasn't into drag racing it as I had RWD cars for that.

Still, I would like to figure it out some day. I acquired a nice used K and am considering trying to "roll" it a bit like you suggested.

Joel Jackson spoke of this in his Fast Days book, they relocated the stub strut with offset spherical bushings as I remember.

Appreciate the input!!

Thanks
Randy

[jefo]

Do you guys think the KYB struts (235901) for the van would be a big improvement for wheelhop? Or any recommendations (other than Koni, because $$$).

From what you guys have said it seems like anything I get will be better than the sensatrac haha.

And I'll have to look into the stiffer strut mounts.

[Vigo]

Ive never had a real problem with wheelhop in most of my vans. I think the stub-strut control arm design probably allows for more deflection of the control arm under acceleration than the later design. You might try swapping to stiff bushings in the rear of the control arm. http://polybushings.com/pages/moparfwdaarm.html

I'd also try shimming the front of the k-frame down and see what happens since it should be very easy.

[A.J.]

I had worn out KYB's and had wheel hop. I replaced them with new KYB's and wheel hop went away. I only use KYB's on my vehicles and my customers vehicles.

[Force Fed Mopar]

KYB's are good shocks.

[jonnymopar]

I only use KYB's on my vehicles and my customers vehicles.

KYB's are good shocks.

Yep, I think the monotubes are probably the best shock for these cars (I run Gabriels in the front). My Neon has KYBs at all 4 corners.

[tryingbe]

KYB GR-2 and Excel-G are twin tube.
KYB Gas-a-Just is monotube.

If you don't know which KYB you have, you have the GR-2/Excel-G

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_V4JAIOF2c


I had GR-2 once, it lasted less than 6 months and the ride was floaty again. I got a set of used Gas-a-Just shocks and they lasted more than 2 years before I sold the car.

[jefo]

Here's an example. Look like toe is changing and suspension is oscillating. I'll try and get some better videos from different angles, etc.

[Johnny]

KYB Gas-a-Just is monotube.

BUT they don't make these in struts.

[MILKCARTON]

Take it for what it is worth, I have never had a Turbo Mopar(any Body) wheel hop with slicks or M&H 235-60-15 bias ply's I run.... My Shadow has all junk used and wore out parts in the front end and wheel hops with street tires and especially drag radials at any psi tire pressure. It has done a best of 1.62 60 foot time with 26x8.5-14 slick