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Thread: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

  1. #1

    Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    Long story short, doing a ultra budget build on a 8v and trying to save money anywhere I can so went to the wreckers and picked up all the parts to update the valve train. Got p.t. lifters 3.3L springs and gm3100 retainers, when I pulled the retainers I noticed the 3100 springs are very similar to the 3.3L spring so I grabbed them also. When I got home I used my spring checker to test the springs and see where they're at. The 3100 springs showed considerable better numbers over stock and 3.3L springs and it also looks like they are ovate springs. The only problem I found is the I.D. of the 3100 spring is to small to fit over the guide boss. So what I wanna know is if I were to remove enough material plus a bit of clearance off the guide boss to fit the 3100 spring would it be safe?

  2. #2
    turbo addict
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    I have cut the guide bosses down before. You just can't cut spring perch down very far because you have water jacket not far away. Sad part is your gonna spend money on machine work that you could of used to buy correct springs, unless you have access to free machining.
    Todd

  3. #3

    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    That's what I was hoping to hear, and luckily I do have access to free machining.

  4. #4
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    I've eyed those springs too,just never enough to pull them (I don't have a spring checker).

    What were the "better numbers" you saw? .

    Mike
    Last edited by zin; 02-18-2014 at 09:48 PM.
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  5. #5

    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    Stock: with 1 .030shim under the spring, closed 95psi, open 205psi. gm3100: with 2 .03shims under spring, closed 100psi open 255psi. 3.3l: with 3 .03shims under spring, closed 85psi, open 215psi. ( measured at 1.65 closed 1.22 open ) The 3100 springs were also about .100 from coil bind and the 3.3L springs were .04-.05 from coil bind.

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    Made up a quick tool to cut the bosses. I already tried it on a junk head and works perfect and it can be used with just hand drill.

  6. #6
    turbo addict
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    Good job. Those numbers look pretty good to me! Should work well with a roller cam.
    Todd

  7. #7
    The moderately moderate moderator Turbo Mopar Staff
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    Another GM part to the rescue.......HAHAHA!!
    Bryan
    86 GLHS #161, 2016 Impala
    SDAC National Member, SDAC Buckeye Chapter Member

    A man has got to know his limitations.....

  8. #8
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    I'm liking it too! Better (not too extreme) seat pressure, and higher "over the nose", should do a good job controlling things to a pretty respectable RPM...

    Speaking of which, anyone have a calculator that will give us a ballpark as to the RPM limit/controllable limit for these springs?

    My wild-azz'd guess would be 6500-7000, but I'm just shotgunning from the hip there...

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

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  9. #9
    The moderately moderate moderator Turbo Mopar Staff
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    I know guys who run 3100-3400 V6's that go to 6500 rpm with them. I would think for most of us they would be fine.
    Bryan
    86 GLHS #161, 2016 Impala
    SDAC National Member, SDAC Buckeye Chapter Member

    A man has got to know his limitations.....

  10. #10

    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    Quote Originally Posted by zin View Post
    I'm liking it too! Better (not too extreme) seat pressure, and higher "over the nose", should do a good job controlling things to a pretty respectable RPM...
    That's what I thinking when I checked them, I think they will be perfect for the low budget street/strip build I'm doing rite now.

  11. #11
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    That looks like the same as a Sealed Power VS1642 spring.

    VS1642
    Engine Valve Spring
    Notes: Closed Height--1.70
    Closed Pressure in Lbs--72
    Max Outer Diameter--0.94
    Open Height--1.26
    Open Pressure in Lbs--233
    Solid Height--0
    Total Coils--6.5
    Wire Diameter--0.178

    That's a 366lb/in spring. If you add 0.06" of pre-load with shims (as you did), you get ~96lb seat pressure and ~255lb open pressure (@0.44" lift). Looks pretty good, and they're inexpensive even new (~$6/ea).
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
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  12. #12

    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    Nice work on finding the specs Rob! I find it interesting that the used springs are showing the same pressures as the new one's, but from what I've reading the conical springs hardly ever lose there rate. Wow they are cheap, IMO they would almost a better option then the Comp spring in most applications

  13. #13
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    I just checked, and the VS1642 crosses to the GM PN 10166343. Just for future reference. There are many very inexpensive eBay listings for that spring in Genuine GM packaging. Maybe even better than the VS1642.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    Now just sell the tool for 50 bucks and we have a bang on cheap upgrade

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    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    Quote Originally Posted by turismolover22 View Post
    Now just sell the tool for 50 bucks and we have a bang on cheap upgrade
    Yep. Can't find any off-the-shelf spring seat cutters anywhere near the right size...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

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  16. #16
    turbo addict
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    Yep. Can't find any off-the-shelf spring seat cutters anywhere near the right size...
    Looks like Motorhead153 made his from an old intake valve stem. Looks like single groove bead lock is inverted in this pic.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    Thats exactly what it looks like he did. And just make a seat cutter out of something, possibly tool steel.

  18. #18
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    Can't seem to find a PN for the retainers...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

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  19. #19
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    I'm interested to see where this goes.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  20. #20
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Another conical/beehive valve spring question

    Just got my GM PN 10166343 springs in the mail today. Measuring one up, they seem a little different from the VS1642 specs listed in the catalog.

    Max OD = 1.35" (bottom) ; 1.06" (top)
    Wire Dia = 0.179"
    Overall length = 1.935" (uncompressed, obviously)
    # of coils = 6.5

    Assuming the spring rate is as-advertised, @1.7" the seat load should be 366lb/in * 0.235in = 86lb; with a 0.06" shim = 108lb

    The head I'm going to put these in has already been cut for springs w/dampers. So, I may not even need to modify it. Need to pull a spring and check.

    Just need to find the right retainers to go with them.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

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