ported stocker with precision 5431 turbo question

[Shadow]

Glad to see you guys yuckin it up again! Was starting to feel so serious around here, every time I would post something I was already regretting it

[jackerman]

Thanks for the in put. Contraption and shadow for the answer i was looking for. Cordes can i get some points for asking a bad question lol. That header page is funny. Ill see if i can sell my pathfinder to purchase the header for that seems like the right thing to due. But i think im limited to the power due to stock connecting rods and stock valves that are back cut. Most of my other stuff is done.

[85boostbox]

Ah man does this mean the thread is done. I got a whole box of popcorn on standby

[Shadow]

The funniest part to that thread was Matt. We had just gone at it in another thread where he said the Charger was pathetic because it only ran 10.99 with 480WHP. When I caught wind that he was now using the Charger to back up his argument in another thread I almost busted a gut! lol

[Ondonti]

I think the term "enough power to be worth it" is a meaningless statement. For some people, 5whp for a header that costs 10,000 dollars on a 500whp motor is worth it.
Some people install ridiculously expensive weight savings parts in near stock vehicles because they like the idea of a light car with light rotating parts.

I do not modify things to get the best bang for the buck.

Best bang for the buck would be a cheaply modified/optimized by hand setup, huge turbo, and the highest octane race fuel you can get with a perfect tune. Terrible cost per mileage but don't drive it and you are fine!
Even better would be the same thing on methanol fuel

At some point you have to modify something simply because you want to, or because you like the idea. At some point money does not have to equate to the optimum hp gain. Sometimes time spent also gets into this equation. We all spend too much time on some silly things and then refuse to spend time on something important.

[cordes]

Glad to see you guys yuckin it up again! Was starting to feel so serious around here, every time I would post something I was already regretting it

I think your Canadian sense of humor is lost on some folks. However, now that you mention it we are a pretty serious group for the most part.

Thanks for the in put. Contraption and shadow for the answer i was looking for. Cordes can i get some points for asking a bad question lol. That header page is funny. Ill see if i can sell my pathfinder to purchase the header for that seems like the right thing to due. But i think im limited to the power due to stock connecting rods and stock valves that are back cut. Most of my other stuff is done.

No stupid question asked at all. This just happens to be a topic that we have beaten to death more than once. I'll still give you 14,897 points for allowing me to mention fighting under the TU tent in another thread.

[contraption22]

I think the term "enough power to be worth it" is a meaningless statement. For some people, 5whp for a header that costs 10,000 dollars on a 500whp motor is worth it.
Some people install ridiculously expensive weight savings parts in near stock vehicles because they like the idea of a light car with light rotating parts.

I do not modify things to get the best bang for the buck.

Best bang for the buck would be a cheaply modified/optimized by hand setup, huge turbo, and the highest octane race fuel you can get with a perfect tune. Terrible cost per mileage but don't drive it and you are fine!
Even better would be the same thing on methanol fuel

At some point you have to modify something simply because you want to, or because you like the idea. At some point money does not have to equate to the optimum hp gain. Sometimes time spent also gets into this equation. We all spend too much time on some silly things and then refuse to spend time on something important.

I wouldn't say it's meaningless. I would say it's relative to your budget.

[85boostbox]

If you can weld yourself a equal length header cost a lot less. I can build a equal length header for about 250 worth of material if that. Sorry I am not spending 400 for a step log header. As stated previously I think why we do not benefit from headers is the crappy flow of our 8 valve heads. Our valve ratios stink. Our flow numbers stink. Take that out of the equation and you get somewhere.

[Shadow]

Is it bad i read Cordes' first post in the atypical wrestling ref/announcer voice?

I did the same thing without even realizing it at the time! lol

I think your Canadian sense of humor is lost on some folks. However, now that you mention it we are a pretty serious group for the most part.

Not sure if it has anything to do with being Canadian, but maybe. I've always been told that I have a very Dry sense of humour, no matter how I try though, I just can't see it?

I think it's because I understand that life is serious enough, so for the most part, I keep things very light hearted.

Although, I Do adhere to the truth as much as possible. When it comes to truth vs BS, I Will push at times to help bring it into the light, while others seem to prefer it remain in darkness.

I think it's the cross-over between when I take things lightly vs when I dig in, that confuses most and leaves them with an uncertainty about my true character.

Understandably so, when you consider that even when I'm Digging in, on the inside, I'm still taking things lightly

[Shadow]

If you can weld yourself a equal length header cost a lot less. I can build a equal length header for about 250 worth of material if that. Sorry I am not spending 400 for a step log header. As stated previously I think why we do not benefit from headers is the crappy flow of our 8 valve heads. Our valve ratios stink. Our flow numbers stink. Take that out of the equation and you get somewhere.

There is some truth in what your saying, but some of us have gotten past that. It's really about understanding how Every piece of the puzzle has a part to play and making sure they are all playing happily together.

Our little 2.2 happens to have a Great powerband When the right combination of parts are used. It develops a good balance of TQ vs HP with the stock ported piece. Unfortunately, it's only recently that the community is starting to understand just how important it is to have Max flow Right after the turbine housing. So most were believing the exhaust mani was the culprit, when it was actually the S/V and everything After the turbo.

I was able to understand this from the beginning through a conversation with a very well versed Turbo expert (also a very good friend of mine), and it's one of the pieces of the puzzle that has allowed the Charger to do what it has done.

Of all the ppl who have come to me to build their turbo cars, not one of them has warranted a header. None of them need more than a 7000rpm PB, they are All street driven. (some even year round) most are what I would consider "heavy", so low end TQ IS a consideration, and there are just Better ways to spend their money on More Practical things Before a header.

Of course, this is only My opinion. as Ondonti stated, there will always be those individuals that simply want to try something different, or build something unique, regardless of cost or time, and that's Great!

For most though, I think contraption22 has it right; budget and practicality are what come into play in the real world with real (hard worked for) $'s being spent. So ppl want the Best bang for the buck and the most practical power + reliability they can get, and there's nothing wrong with that either!

[85boostbox]

Yes you are absolutely correct. It is all pieces of the puzzle. Too many times I have seen to where people just add more boost as a bandaid. Not you by any means but a lot of people.

I think a lot of these newer guys that want a fast car should read up on effiency and turbos in general.

Rob can I have your email address so I can email you some of my build plans/designs and see what you think. I plan on making my build public after I get it done just want to make sure that my setup is successful.

Paul

[Shadow]

PM sent......

[85boostbox]

Got will email you later

[Ondonti]

I wouldn't say it's meaningless. I would say it's relative to your budget.

It is meaningless because people constantly leave out their budget and even with a budget, your personal preferences often taint what value you apply to something. I think people sometimes say "worth it" when they really mean "does it make sense to modify things in this order." I wouldn't put a tubular manifold on a car that was lacking a lot of other things but if my plan was to absolutely max out a turbocharger (no matter how large/small) for ego sake, I would upgrade everything else to the max and I would choose my mods based on the gains/$ until my budget is able to purchase/create all possible mods. I think in that situation an exhaust manifold would be something you pick up early on since that dictates the rest of your exhaust system. I would still love to see somebody really max out a TII style turbo on an 8 valve with more then just boltons. Most people jump to turbo upgrade because $ wise its easier.

I think a PT5531 would enjoy a better manifold no matter how fast you could make the same car go with a ported stocker. I think you would also see more hp with the same fuel octane. If you can't make it yourself and nobody really makes one, its probably not a reasonable option. If you have to buy it, I would rather buy a camshaft and a custom intake manifold for the same $ on a 2.2/2.5 since the exhaust options available are lame IMO

[Vigo]

I would still love to see somebody really max out a TII style turbo on an 8 valve with more then just boltons.

I am pretty happy with that ~293whp that Stefan put down at FWD (if im remembering correctly).

[Ondonti]

I am pretty happy with that ~293whp that Stefan put down at FWD (if im remembering correctly).

A dyno number is not exactly what I am refering too. Its obsessive modifications with or without peak hp improvements. Basically maxing out the turbo the soonest possible in the powerband and extending it out as far as possible.