413 Bearing Question

[2.216VTurbo]

So my Bro & I put in a couple solid days on WhiteOut the 90 turbo Mini, replaced a weepy HG, a ported EX manifold,new drivers side axle and seals on both sides, swaybar bushings, did some porting tricks on the swingvalve assembly and generally cleaned/restored all the parts that were off. After getting it running again it runs REALLY strong for a Non IC Mini(we did one 'freeway entrance' pull against Woody and it was a close contest)

Next morning there a giant puddle of ATF under the drivers side get it up on jackstands running and notice the drivers side is wobbling in the trans When we unbolt the outboard side, we can rock the rock the trans side of the axle while its in the trans.

I dont have any 413 trans experience other than watching Rob rebuild one on a trailer in the SDAC 18 hotel parking lot, the Mini's are my first TM's that aren't manual trans cars so Im not in posession of any 413 specific tools. Anyway, here's the questions.

What bearing is bad, diff carrier?

Can we just pop the diff cover off,remove the diff and throw a new one at it?

Setting preload?

Is this trans worth saving or is it done now? Weve already done a filter & complete flush with 9 quarts of new fluid and nothing shiny was in the pan...

[cordes]

I believe the bearings are a Timken set 11 for the diff in those. It's the same for the autos and the manuals. Anything else and I'd have to look it up. How much play is there?

[A.J.]

1) What bearing is bad, diff carrier?

2) Can we just pop the diff cover off,remove the diff and throw a new one at it?

3) Setting preload?

4) Is this trans worth saving or is it done now? Weve already done a filter & complete flush with 9 quarts of new fluid and nothing shiny was in the pan...

1) Wouldn't really know without looking at it. It sounds like it would be the differential bearing.

2) You could but if you want it to last you need to set the preload. You also need a bearing puller to get it off of the differential and a press to get the new one back on. Same with the race in the differential bearing cup. I can get it out with a punch and hammer and then press it in with a press. That's the bearing cup that has the shims to set the preload.

3) See number 2

4) As long as the case isn't damaged it's salvageable. I guess you could filter your new fluid through a coffee filter to reuse it.

[2.216VTurbo]

OK, thx AJ and Cordes, we're gonna tear into it at the shop Wednesday after work,just gotta move a few cars to get to the lift Any chance of getting a part number for the bearing(s)? I have a box of diff shims(somewhere at the shop,may never be found) but they are for manual trans,are they same shims?

[A.J.]

Whether it's manual or automatic, there are two different size bearings/cups. Large and small. At least from my experience.

[86Shelby]

Most of the time if you are only swapping bearings and races, things will likely still be within spec. You can certianly go through and double check to ensure it lives as long as possible. The shims should be the same for autos & manuals.

The large & small diff bearings are common on later transmissions. On those units the larger bearing is on the driver's side of the diff. IIRC it was introduced with the Neons...

[cordes]

Whether it's manual or automatic, there are two different size bearings/cups. Large and small. At least from my experience.

Are the bearings for the small spline transmissions smaller than the rest? I thought that it was the same bearing for all of the large spline transmissions at least?

[A.J.]

I don't know about the small spline trannies but Alan's van is an '89 so it's either going to be the small bearing and cup or the large bearing and cup. Like 86Shelby said, the larger bearings started with the Neons so Alan's is probably the smaller bearing. But you can install the larger bearing/race/cup in the older transmissions, the bolt patterns are the same. When you buy a Peloquin it comes with the larger bearing/race/cup.

[2.216VTurbo]

OK, so the consensus is that there are too many variables to be sure,I was just hoping to have parts *before* we tear into it. The way the cars are lined up in my narrow shop,if one becomes a 'pusher' it blocks about 5 other cars in Ill just pull them out and drive over to King Bearings.

This is the trans in the 90 ES from the Spokane adventure 'Whiteout'

[c2xejk]

RockAuto.com lists it as a Timken Set 11 (as cordes stated). In National it is an A18. It is listed under the "drivetrain" section.

[2.216VTurbo]

Bro and I tore into it yesterday about noon,we were adding trans fluid and test driving about 7 last night. Shifts great,high pitch bearing whine is gone and so is the strange vibration that could be felt in the floorboards at low speed. Ill add completly wiped out Diff bearings to the list of parts that can cause vibrations at speed

Bearings were trashed and so were the races,worst Ive ever seen. Unfortunatly, the bearing race wobbled so bad that it took out the diff snout the race was mounted on,new race was just too loose to stay seated Fortunatly we found a core at a local trans shop that they sold to me for $80. The planetary/spyder gears were in much better shape on the core piece tooUpgrade!

[cordes]

Glad to hear it Alan. I bet that thing had to have seen some miles to wear the bearings like that. I've got transmissions with well over 300K on them that keep going for some reason. They're all 5 speeds from lighter cars though.