bad knock after ignition timing!

[Shawnethan]

Now that you mention it... It doesnt knock till abiut 2k rpms. I will have someone rev it while i listen around again, because before i was listening at idle. Slipped by my mind eatlier...

[Vigo]

One thing ive had cause a loud knocking on the motor before is a loose crank pulley.

Also, cracked flexplates or loose converter bolts will do it, but it usually isnt a consistent, cyclic noise with those. And im thinking your car is a 5spd?

[Shawnethan]

Yes it is a 5speed, and I have the WEIRDEST thing happen. I advanced the cam one tooth and ignition timing jumped about 6-7 degrees, ran like junk and barely idling, corrected ignition timing and reset the comp, ran perfect, no code, and no knock. BUT, my PCV valve is extremely noisy and she now idles at 12 vac and boosts to 13psi and doesnt feel like much power.

Compression tests were ran during this process and before I advanced the cam, it sat right around 120. Afterwards... 90... the tests were preforms on a cold motor, WOT, and for 10 seconds.

its late here and colder than I'm used to so in the morning I will post a pic of my cam and get a new PCV valve.

[tryingbe]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...=1#post1018932

89 tona with 90psi compression

FIXED THE PROBLEM!!!!!!! cam was 2 teeth off! all 4 cyl are back up into the 140's psi compression with a wet test @ WOT. I performed the dry test as well and 0-3psi change.

Tip on easy cam timing for the future, line up the oval hole on the cam with the second line on the valve cover.. NOT the 3rd... hahaha

[cordes]

You need to set the cam timing properly.

[Shawnethan]

Hahaha funny you quoted that thread.. i was JUST looking back at it to make sure... Haha

My phone will not load the video while i'm at work(crappy service) but i will definately watch it at least twice before setting it correctly tonight! Thank you both tryingbe and cordes

[Vigo]

I set the cam timing by using the 0 degree mark in the timing window, and the little triangles in cam gear lined up with the seams in the cam caps. To me that is the most accurate way that only uses your eyeballs. I ignore the oval hole in the cam gear and the marks on the crank and intermediate pulleys. The intermediate shaft pulley can honestly be a bunch of teeth off and it usually wont matter because you can just make up for it by twisting the distributor. If you want that pulley to be close just pull the distributor cap and make sure the rotor is pointed at #1 terminal on cap. If it isn't, give the belt a bunch of slack on the front side and twist the rotor to slip the gear until it gets closer, then pull the belt slack back up.

[Shawnethan]

Awesome thank you for the tips! I was wondering what the arrows where for on the cam gear.. i will be taking my time tonight and tomorrow to make sure i do it properly. This car pulled hard before this issue happened and i cant wait for that first slam into the my seat again, thank god it's friday and i have the weekend off! cant wait to get home and work on her X(

[cordes]

Just make sure the little hole in the cam gear is pointing up when you set it. If it's pointing toward the ground you'll have the cam 180* out. I don't cover that very well in the video if at all.

[Shawnethan]

I dont recall you mentioning that hole in the video but i will make sure to keep an eye out for it while timing, thank you for pointing that out!

[Aries_Turbo]

i know everyone hopes that it isnt rod knock.

you could drain the oil and look for metal chunks or silver glitter as well to start to rule that out.

Brian

[Shawnethan]

I dont think it's a rod knock, when the cam was advanced 2 teeth, there was no knocking what so ever. I set the cam dead center now and I got the CEL back while driving and the knock is back, only under light-mediun load, and around 2k-3.3krpm. I also shortened the vac line from the baro to the map, and better shape PCV valve, I can BARELY blow through it, unlike the original one that felt like just a plastic elbow, no restriction.. ignition timing is set to 11-12 degrees BTDC, cam lines are horizontal with the motor and match up with the cap line behind the cam, hole on the cam is right underneath 2nd line on valve cover.

What other info have I not shared that might be useful?

I'd rather not wait till I get the scanner but I know it would be much easier..

[cordes]

have you checked your fuel pressure yet? I usually like to put the gauge on and pinch off the return line. If you're not seeing about 100PSI then you need a new pump.

[Shawnethan]

Just tested and It peaked around 90-92, and then leaked down to 20 within about 30 seconds.. the pump is a few months old stock one. Isnt there a piece on the fuel pump assembly that can leak pressure? I did check for leaks from the hoses and there is none.

And I went for a Saturday morning driving this morning and barely knocking and no CEL... and I thought this car has thrown me around enough.. I feel like a chicken running around without its head that scanner needs to come quickly, it would be so helpful

Edit**
when I first started it up this morning it took approx 6 seconds to sputter, it died, turned the key again and it fired right up. It spat and puttered for a few second then I taped the gas and it idled fine, but my afr was in the steady 10's. I waited for a littlr bit and it slowly climbed up to 14's were it normally idles, and in second gear, 12psi, it goes down to solid and even 10.0 afr

[speedfreek500]

So it maybe in the 9's, Does your wideband go below 10.0? Either way its very rich. This timing issue you are having sounds like a tough one, When you swapped over the injectors did the knock sensor get damaged or not plugged in properly?

[Shawnethan]

I have not changed the injectors yet and the plugs have not changed colors again.. very odd... and ya my gauge is a digital 9-18, after that it displays "---" I made sure my knock is plugged in about 15 times so far, its solid and replaced it last year went doing a major tune up(replaced a few sensors as well as plugs, wires, cap and rotor, cleaned tb, etc..)

The fuel pressure leaking concerns me.. but when it knocks im at 13-15 afr

[cordes]

The FP will bleed down over time so that isn't the worst. If it only gives you 90PSI with it pinched off I guess that's probably what a stock pump is capable of. I don't think the TBI pumps can make that much pressure so it's probably a good stock pump, but it's been forever since I've had one. Regardless under little load that pump should be able to get the job done.

[Shawnethan]

This pump has enough to make my afr to read 10's at 5,000rpms running 12ish psi. And when I was running 14.5psi, my afr got at rich as 9.7 with this pump.

But how quickly should it bleed? It seems to be bleeding very quickly and doesnt stay at peak psi for longer than a second.

[cordes]

I've had pumps that would bleed down quickly. That may effect initial start up, but it shouldn't be an issues when the vehicle is running.

[Shawnethan]

I didnt think so, its pinned to 57psi at idle.

I looked at it again today and nothing came to my mind.. spent over an hour trying to figure out something and nothing came to mind... just gonna wait till I get the scanner unless anyone else has an idea, anyone?