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Thread: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

  1. #21
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    Nice work! That's stellar!
    I've been thinking to do something very similar for years. But its one of those future back burner ideas. Nice to see a working example!


    How much boost do you run?
    And what is your recorded temperature increase in your glycol at the end of your 1/4 mile run?
    How is it during hwy boosting?
    What suction pressure are you running with your R134a?
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
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  2. #22
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    I run 18 psi boost minimum. When I open the exhaust it runs 21. With the nitrous on a 65 shot I've held it on 26 through all three gears dozens of times. I ran several tests when I first put the system on this past summer. Under hood temps cruising down the road at 55 mph during the hottest days here were about 105 degrees. The intake air temp was 65. I drove about 10 miles and put the car into boost every time I could. Once I pulled a hill through all three gears at 18 psi and the intake air temp stayed under 100 the whole time. I do run straight windshield washer fluid through my homemade methanol injector system which helps too. However I have never seen another intercooler system, even those that use ice, that can match an a/c cooled system. My a/c system is not perfect though. The car stays cool inside but the factory condenser is too small for the best results. I use two fans, one pusher and one puller. If I get time this summer I will put on a bigger condenser probably under the back of the car to help keep the underhood temps down. On a hot day the low side runs about 30 psi and the high side runs 280 to 320.

  3. #23
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    Damn, those high side pressures are pretty high relative to the low side. I'd be really interested to see what happened with a bigger condenser.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  4. #24
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    If R12 was still available it would lower the high side some but I'm certain a larger condenser with long lines to the rear will cure the problem. The factory condenser is not that big especially for running R134 and considering how much heat it has to deal with in the water. I have an old style pop off valve on it set at 450 psi. So far its not even hissed lol.

    Its hard to see but there is my pusher fan. It needs to be twice that big but I was fortunate to get that one in there behind the grille.

    [IMG][/IMG]

  5. #25
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    You may have already done this, but look here:
    http://www.ackits.com/c/Parallel/Par...+Aluminum.html
    They have condensers that are supposed to be much more efficient. Might be both a nice upgrade in the stock location or for the rear mounted unit.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  6. #26
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    Thanks! I bookmarked the site for future reference. I've noticed that a lot of new cars come with parallel flow condensers but that is the first picture I've seen on how the core is made. No wonder its more efficient. I will definitely be using that type when I upgrade.

  7. #27
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    Neat stuff going on in here! I like how your intercooler is mounted. i have a similar one and swear that almost wasnt possible

  8. #28
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    Quote Originally Posted by rgl10 View Post
    A few of the mods I tried were to make the engine more reliable. One that is commonly done to these motors in the 4th cylinder coolant mod. Every turbo motor I've blown up has had damage to the number 4 cylinder. As everyone knows this is because of the thermostat placement on these engines. Some of the mods I have seen done seem pointless but here is my take on it. I drilled a new freeze plug and put in a fitting with an elbow attached. I then ran a hose down to the water pump and drilled the back of the housing and added a fitting there. This way I have a steady flow out that hot end of the head. I have data logged my knock sensor with and without this mod. Before I added this number 4 always knocked first and by far the most. Now it shows knock at the same level as the other three cylinders. As a matter of fact the whole engine knocks less. I'm guessing this is because of the improved water circulation though the head overall.

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    Thanks for posting that info. I've had the same issues with my race car. Even on 110 octane race gas, I can't raise the timing due to knock on cyl #4. Glad to have someone else actually log it. The #4 coolant mod is on my to-do list this off-season.
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    Rob Lloyd
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  9. #29
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    I want to thank you again for all the work you have put into making cals readily available and so easy to modify for our cars. I guarantee my engine would not have lasted at all without the ability to fine tune a mopar computer that you and those that worked with you have made. I drove my car nearly every day last summer to work and back and through trial and error, and data logging every trip, I was able to max out my timing for my setup. Out of curiosity I pinched the 3/8 water line from my 4th cylinder mod just to see the difference if any after I had tuned the cal to the max spark timing I could run on 91 octane without knock. I also turned off the methanol injection. Under long boost pulls the first 3 cylinders randomly retarded timing less than 7 degrees. Number 4 would max out at 15 at which point I could hear audible knock and would immediately get off the gas. Turning the water/meth injection back on eliminated most of the knock on 1-3 but number 4 would still be retarding 7-9 degrees nearly every time I held it though 2nd gear. I think the water methanol mix is too heavy even in mist form to make the turn coming out of the intake neck and bypasses number 4 somewhat and with that cylinder running hotter of course I still had some knock even though I could not hear it anymore. Turning off the methanol injection and opening up the number 4 water bypass by itself stops nearly all knock with my timing curve on 91 octane. Hot spots in the cylinder head must be reduced since the first three cylinders also quit knocking. Strangely enough with the bypass open if I do see knock it is usually first on number 3, for what reason I'm not sure. 1,2 and 4 only knock slightly on the hottest days or very long pulls in high gear. With the methanol on and the number 4 coolant mod I never record any knock and that is one of the biggest reasons I didn't add to my piston collection last summer. Also my take on the number 4 coolant bypass is a full flow 3/8 stream of water out of the end of the head and directly to the pump. If you just run it to the thermostat housing you don't have much flow at all behind the thermostat when its closed. Making sure you have flow out the bottom of the thermostat housing either though the heater core if you have one or directly back to the pump is in my opinoin absolutely necessary. If you block off the heater hose out the bottom of the thermostat housing all water flow in the block and head stops if you run a thermostat when its closed. If you don't run a thermostat then you can block off the heater hose. That is the reason I run my mod hose directly to the back of the water pump, so I have full flow out the end of the head all the time and it does for a fact cure number 4 knock problems and lowers overall engine knock.

  10. #30
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Once again, great info (with data!).

    I was actually planning to do a 'reverse flow' #4 coolant mod. I was going to run water from the water pump outlet up to #4. But, maybe I'll just do this first. I don't run a heater circuit (because race car), and I've already tapped the pump housing for a 3/4NPT. So adding an AN fitting is no big deal at this point.

    Oh, and you're very welcome on the cal data. I'm always glad to hear of someone making good use of it. I'm sure Morris (wowzer) does too.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
    tuning wiki

  11. #31
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    Quote Originally Posted by AzShadow View Post
    Neat stuff going on in here! I like how your intercooler is mounted. i have a similar one and swear that almost wasnt possible
    Nearly wasn't lol! I made the mistake of installing it without having the radiator in. When I tried to put the radiator in place I realized that, at the least, a custom fan shroud would be necessary. I ended up with a smaller puller fan than I wanted so thats another reason I want to put the condenser in the back. Then I can put a nice big pusher fan on the front of the radiator and do away with the puller fan. Might put a big diverter panel on the inside of the radiator to push the hot air down under the vehicle instead of against my intercooler.

    [IMG][/IMG]

  12. #32
    boostaholic
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    Wow, sweet ride, glad you are posting here.

  13. #33
    turbo addict
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    Thanks for the information! Very good to know!

  14. #34
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    Thanks guys! Its nice to share info with people that are interested in and knowledgeable about Mopar turbos. I've been trying to list most of the bigger changes I've made to the car. Here is another one. I needed to get the battery out of the engine compartment since there is so little room under the hood. I didn't want to move it to the rear so I did like Chrysler has done on some of their newer cars. I put it in the front fender. I chose the passenger side since I don't run a posi. I have put nearly everything I could over on that side to help balance out the front end. There really isn't enough room for a battery to fit but the bottom of the right fender was slightly damaged and had some rust on it so I didn't feel too bad about cutting it off. The front spoiler covers it up anyhow when its installed. Here are some pictures.

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  15. #35
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    Next up is my budget (real cheap) water methanol injection system. I had put a new fuel tank on my car and wanted a new pump hanger to go with the 255 walbro I was putting in. I could not find the hanger anywhere new unless I bought one for an 88 - 90 tbi motor. That left me with a new tbi pump. I saved it just in case I found something to do with it. Turns out it works perfectly in my meth injection system. Another problem was where to put the tank. The closer to the injector the better. Under the hood I had one area with nothing in it. I had left some room to change the oil filter. Looks to be 5 inches square and 16 inches deep.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    An unlikely candidate but a perfect fit none the less was a new spaghetti holder my wife had not put into service yet. I got some clear tubing at the local hardware store for a few dollars and bought a new adjustable hobbs switch at NAPA part number 7011577. The injector is from a ford police car with a flex fuel 4.6 which will handle the alcohol without problems.


    [IMG][/IMG]


    Made a hanger for the tank and put it in place. This way I can just lift it out when I need to change the oil filter.

    [IMG][/IMG]


    Drilled the lid to put the wires and hose thought and hung the pump on it.

    [IMG][/IMG]

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  16. #36
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    The injector is mounted in the top of the intercooler. From what I've read, the nozzle should be back from the throttle body several inches if possible. Most of the kit manufacturers say to mount the nozzles at a 90 degree angle to the airflow. My air makes a 90 degree curve going from straight up to straight back. I drilled the top of the intercooler and mounted the injector the best I could in the middle of the air pathway arch.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    The system is armed by a master switch in the dash. Power goes to the hobbs switch on the intake manifold. Originally I set the switch at 16lbs. When under boost and I hit that pressure, power goes to a relay. This powers up the pump and injector at the same time. For simplicity I do not use a regulator or injector control module. The pump when dead headed puts out 50 psi. You must subtract the intake pressure from this. So 50 minus 20 leaves 30 psi effective fuel pressure. Just right for the ford injector. The injector would burn out if it was powered up all the time but so far it seems that its not being hurt for even up to 40 seconds on time which is about the max I've been able to hold it under boost. Its seen a lot of 10 to 15 seconds bursts over the last several thousand miles and still works fine.

    Hobbs switch on the back of the manifold.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    The control switch is a panel I made from a wrecked ambulance. I ran a harness from it to the fuse box and out under the hood to my relay pack and various switches.

    [IMG][/IMG]

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  17. #37
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    This is what the buttons on the control panel do.

    The White switch is my nitrous purge button.

    The Red switch is the master switch for the nitrous. When its on it lights up and enables the nitrous. When you put the pedal to the floor the nitrous kicks in.

    The Green switch turns on the water meth injection system and is lit up when on.

    The Yellow switch is an extra for some future use. I'm certain I will need it.

    The toggle switch is my nitrous bottle valve switch. Just leave the twist bottle valve on all the time and turn the tank on and off from this toggle. I got caught one time with my bottle off when I ran nitrous in the blue car and I really needed it to be on lol. So with this setup I can have it anytime I need it at the flip of a switch.

    The three small leds are my "feedback" lights. For instance when the methanol system is turned on the green light comes on but the pump and injector are off till the engine hits 16lbs of boost. I like to know when the system is actually working so this feedback light comes on when power actually gets to the pump and injector. The same thing for the nitrous. When I'm at full throttle and the solenoids get power the led above the red nitrous switch comes on. I got these off ebay. They blink red, green and blue really quickly so there is no wondering if the system has activated. I have to say its pretty awesome at night!


    Here is the control panel in action. If you look closely when I punch it the light above the nitrous switch comes on first as the gas pedal hits wide open throttle. Milliseconds later the the light above the methanol switch comes on when the boost hits 16lbs.


  18. #38
    turbo addict
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    I to have thought about air to water setup like yours. How does the compressor work at higher rpms? Do you have to use an under drive pulley or what not? I always figured that the power that was needed to turn the compressor wouldn't offset that of the colder air. Am I wrong in thinking this?

  19. #39
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    The compressor on most if not all fuel injected Chrysler vehicles kicks out above a certain throttle opening like over 70 percent or over a certain rpm. So anytime I floor my car the compressor kicks out so no more a/c load but the water pump keeps pumping the water through the intercooler. The system holds over two gallons so when the water has already been cooled down by normal driving with the a/c on you can then floor it and run it hard and two gallons of cold water can absorb a lot of heat. In a street driven car even a wild madman driver would have a hard timing running it wide open long enough to overheat the water. The above video was a punch from 40 mph. The car with the nitrous on went past 80 in less than three seconds. Even without nitrous you simply cannot hold the car in boost for very long. Every time you let up on the gas the a/c clutch kicks back in and starts cooling the water again. The system would not be good for racing up Pikes Peak since you could stay wide open throttle more than you would be idling or cruising. That type of extreme racing would not work with this type of system but for a daily driver its a perfect match.

  20. #40
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    Re: 85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build

    Very cool seeing as I want to do something similar on a v8 turbo car someday. Thanks

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