exposing masi knowledge

[joelzip]

I would like to open a thread for common masi knowledge to take some of the mysteries out of this engine and possibly make it more affordable at the same time. I am building my first turbo dodge motor and masi it is. I have a ton of questions myself but will be posting pictures of some custom pieces as well. Its going to be a slow build, at this point I have the head back from Rick, the block and rotating assembly is with Dave Kofell still haven't heard from them yet. I made custom 4 bolt main caps for the common block and I will be using the fully counter weighted masi crank with narrowed h beam rods / bearings and je forged pistons. I have a masi exhaust flange that I would like to build a tubular manifold for with external wastegate. I have some questions,

-what spark plugs should I use with this head with 20 psi boost / water injection?
-Does anyone have a tune for an sbec computer that works well?
-What fuel rail options do I have?, I saw a billet unit on a factory motor once, I believe it was for a t1 motor?
-Are the cam seals rare? I see them on rock auto but dont know if they are correct?

[Vigo]

Is there some kind of problem with the factory fuel rail?

[joelzip]

Yes the factory shrader valve was broken off and then someone brazed a new one on and damaged the fuel injector bore in the vise. At that point I said screw it. When I was at Ricks house we held a t1 rail up to the masi intake and the spread looked correct, I could weld legs on it to hold it in place need be, just thought someone would chime in with a performance replacement as I'm going with new lines, pump, adjustable regulator ect.

[2.216VTurbo]

Woah, lotsa questions, I take a stab at one. I haven't run one yet but the FFV stainless fuel rail mocks up to the Masi IN manifold nicely and I think it would supply all the flow you need.

The stock EX mani suprised a few of us how MUCH it flows once the teeny lil IHI turbo flange is cut off! Its a nice piece,I'd urge you to consider modifying/using it and spending that header $$ on other parts

[joelzip]

It just kills me to see the two outside exhaust runners shooting directly into each other. Plus I tig weld myself so the cost is actually less than the modified factory manifold from supplier....I'm going to ask Cindy if she knows what fuel rail of hers would work, I would rather run aftermarket with the rail mounted regulator. Do you have a suggestion for spark plugs? Do these heads use the same plugs as the 8 valve or t3 motors?

[cordes]

If you can tig weld yourself then just buy some injector rail stock and make the brackets. The spacing is the same on all of the chryslers.

[2.216VTurbo]

It just kills me to see the two outside exhaust runners shooting directly into each other. Plus I tig weld myself so the cost is actually less than the modified factory manifold from supplier....I'm going to ask Cindy if she knows what fuel rail of hers would work, I would rather run aftermarket with the rail mounted regulator. Do you have a suggestion for spark plugs? Do these heads use the same plugs as the 8 valve or t3 motors?

Plugs are unique to Masi application, niether TIII or 8V plugs work, these have a smaller body. I don't have the NGK number committed to memory but I found a bunch of them on ebay, issue was when they showed up, they fit the head fine but take an 18mm socket insted of the 16mm socket. There is not enough room down the plug holes in the head for an 18mm socket. DOH!

So then next head I had prepped, I had it bored large enough to accept the 18mm I still have a couple running motors that can only take the hard to find 16mm plugs. As the heads come off for valvetrain parts replacement(Im sure Rick used the oversized/upgraded valves &springs,it's his stuff he developed)I have the overbore mod done.

[GLHNSLHT2]

A t1 rail bolts right up, the only difference between a T1 and a Masi is the location of the FPR which works just fine in a different place anyway. I don't know if a FWDP style rail mount FPR would work with room for the a/c/alt bracket or not. TU's might work with the FPR on one end.

[joelzip]

When you have time please post the plug numbers kinda late for me to bore the head as its assembled and clean

[GLHS0769]

NGK 7162 .025 or Autolite 4164 .028

[joelzip]

looks like I might have to hog my finished head out for spark plugs.....Ill post some pics of what I bought and you guys can decide for yourselves.

[2.216VTurbo]

looks like I might have to hog my finished head out for spark plugs.....This cylinder head / exhaust manifold / intake / fuel rail I had done is a mess. Ill post some pics of what I bought and you guys can decide for yourselves.

I don't understand what this post means. Rick did the head and it's finished and ready to run right?

[GLHNSLHT2]

Plugs are unique to Masi application, niether TIII or 8V plugs work, these have a smaller body. I don't have the NGK number committed to memory but I found a bunch of them on ebay, issue was when they showed up, they fit the head fine but take an 18mm socket insted of the 16mm socket. There is not enough room down the plug holes in the head for an 18mm socket. DOH!

So then next head I had prepped, I had it bored large enough to accept the 18mm I still have a couple running motors that can only take the hard to find 16mm plugs. As the heads come off for valvetrain parts replacement(Im sure Rick used the oversized/upgraded valves &springs,it's his stuff he developed)I have the overbore mod done.

NGK 7162 .025 or Autolite 4164 .028

I looked up both those #'s and they both have the 11/16" hex (18mm socket required) But then for sh1ts and giggles I looked up Champion. Now Champion seems to use the same web page as NGK so I'm thinking they're under the same parent company. They come up with a nickel plug at the exact same price as the NGK, but when you click on the specs it uses a 5/8" hex (16mm) I'm gonna go measure the plugs that came out of my Masi head to see what size they are, they are NGK's though. Now I just want to find an Autolite racing plug for it instead

[iTurbo]

Surely the spark plugs must be available without having to go to the extent of modifying the head. I have a couple heads in the garage that I can pull out the plugs and see what the part #s are.

Also it appears Rick has a set of stock 16v spark plugs on eBay right now...

[Spiritman]

Im certain if u get a master ngk book u should be able to find plugs to fit. mabey even a better heat range. just need to sit down and take a look

[GLHNSLHT2]

Edited:


The Champ plug Champion 810 RA8HC WILL WORK

Here's the part # off my NGK plugs I pulled out of the Masi head. NGK 3932 DCPR7E They have the correct 5/8" hex.


The champ plug listed above has the same thread and hex size. You can also get the NGK's in a colder heat range by replacing the 7 with a 9 though the 4 digit code in front of that # will probably change too.

[joelzip]

awesome thank you for the input. I really dont want to burn a bridge with who did the work. But here are some pics of the exhaust manifold I got after I sent out a clean glass beaded factory manifold along with $650. I had to send it back because there was a hole right through to the outside near the welding. I did get my money back and my original manifold which I was led to believe was the one that was going to be modified. Instead mine was taken in exchange for another that was on the shelf which I discovered afterwards. Please share your thoughts as I'm not going to say a thing about it other than the facts. You can see my flashlight inside showing some light through to the outside in one of the pictures. What do you think about this product?

[2.216VTurbo]

The builder should have been a bit more generous on the filler weld but it's not a bad build at all IMO. I'd like to see it seem welded and ground down on the inside as well but that might be overkill. I like how they reinforced the back side of the flange with an added block, should give it a bunch more strength that way. Welding cast iron can be tricky but I'm sure someone locally can finish the job for a nominal fee. Not a bad job, they should have checked the final product a bit closer tho. The thing is, the IHI is mounted at an odd angle, when my bud chopped/modded his flange similar to yours(he used a Chrysler style bolt pattern because he had a turbo already) he used a wedge shaped flange, thicker on one side than the other to correct for the angle and give clearance for a Garrett turbo. I'm wondering if you will have an issue with a standard flange like that?

You mentioned an issue with teh intake manifold?

[GLHNSLHT2]

He should be fine with the turbo as he had the spacers welded at the head too.


Angle cut this one on the masi flange then welded a T3 flange onto it, A GT30R clears the starter just barely without having to weld on the spacers at the head. I don't know if a GT35R with a TO4S housing would clear though. Plenty of filler rod for a nice smooth radius into the manifold.

[iTurbo]

So are there really no higher flowing IHI turbochargers, or at least a larger turbine housing available that would allow using a stock unmodified exhaust manifold? I was going to look into perhaps something from a Subaru, but I have no idea if the flange is the same or not. It sure looks like the stock Masi 16v IHI turbine housing is a decent size already....just the compressor half is pretty tiny. Would some sort of hybrid be possible for somebody like me that doesn't want to shoot for the moon as far as HP potential?