$2013 GRM Shadow

[Pat]

Are they going to do a full article on the Shadow? Just curious...

I don't think so. They didn't really have any interest in the Shadow.

[168glhs1986]

I don't think so. They didn't really have any interest in the Shadow.

They are losers and you are the only winner the past 2 years. Maybe they will like this years project a little better . Lets hope for a 3 peat.

[Vigo]

Even on GRM forums the love for k-cars is... limited. Among the general readership it's probably even less. GRM still has to sell mags. Also, the photogs aren't great lovers of black or FLAT black, and visually the car just isn't as 'out there' as a lot of other challenge entries, including the ScAries for one.

Everybody knows it's a great car, but there are reasons that some things hit the cover and others don't. I don't think many of us build cars trying to hit those 'likability' and 'profit' goals that line up with magazine cover goals. I think what Pat has accomplished with the car, even just visually, is plenty!

[Pat]

They are losers and you are the only winner the past 2 years. Maybe they will like this years project a little better . Lets hope for a 3 peat.

Nah, its not a big deal. Part of me likes the fact that despite the lack of interest, the car still won.

Even on GRM forums the love for k-cars is... limited. Among the general readership it's probably even less. GRM still has to sell mags. Also, the photogs aren't great lovers of black or FLAT black, and visually the car just isn't as 'out there' as a lot of other challenge entries, including the ScAries for one.

Everybody knows it's a great car, but there are reasons that some things hit the cover and others don't. I don't think many of us build cars trying to hit those 'likability' and 'profit' goals that line up with magazine cover goals. I think what Pat has accomplished with the car, even just visually, is plenty!

Agree and actually understand. I picked up a long time ago that they (magazine staff and thier readers) definitely like the cars that are more "out there" builds...regardless of how or if they perform! (had to get a quick zinger in there! Lol!)

[Ondonti]

I would find it hilarious to put a damper on their parade by winning while they wish someone else did.

[Reaper1]

In this past issue they had a blurb on what the worst LeMons car was (maybe it was Crapcan...anyway). No big surprise, it was a K-car wagon. The irony of the fact that a K-based car has won the GRM Challenge 2 years in a row, and has always placed well throughout the entire history of that event, and other K-based cars have also done well, but yet in the same magazine in the same issue a K-based car is called the worst. I just had to laugh.

I LOVE GRM!! I've had and will have their stickers on my car (I've even got one in my cubicle at work). I like the guys that work for the magazine (I've met most of them). If you talk to them outside of earshot of other people, they DO like the cars. The fact is, as has been pointed out, they don't sell, mainly because most people don't have fond memories of them. This is true for most "pedestrian" cars of the '80's and early '90's. Unless you have a Mustang, Corvette, Grand National, or F-body...there are very few cars from that era that people will have ANY good memory of. The flip side to that statement is that more time's that I can count I've had a person tell me: "Oh yeah! I remember those cars! I had (or knew somebody that had) one of those...we beat the crap out of it....it was a really fun car!", so for that reason I just laugh when they get ignored or put down.

Being the underdog is fun, but sometimes, even when you win, it still can suck.

[vipernbox]

I would find it hilarious to put a damper on their parade by winning while they wish someone else did.

I don't think this is entirely fair... I mean the Miata is "the answer" to almost every question at GRM.. but I doubt many if any of the many challenge maita's will be getting to many full page spreads..

I don't understand why ya'll would beat up on them at all... Very recently they did a full page "vintage views" on the GLHS.. The Scaries spread wasn't that long ago.... and heck, over the years with all the K and L cars at the top of the field they really have gotten lots of press...

The trouble is with the cars.. the cat is out of the bag ... Most know they can be made to be very fast cheap in something which looks close to something stock.

An XJ marking the fast time of the day in autocross is simply more interesting to a wider audience than another (in todays world) boosted 4 cylinder... The little engine that could is kinda played out.

[Pat]

I don't think this is entirely fair... I mean the Miata is "the answer" to almost every question at GRM.. but I doubt many if any of the many challenge maita's will be getting to many full page spreads..

I don't understand why ya'll would beat up on them at all... Very recently they did a full page "vintage views" on the GLHS.. The Scaries spread wasn't that long ago.... and heck, over the years with all the K and L cars at the top of the field they really have gotten lots of press...

The trouble is with the cars.. the cat is out of the bag ... Most know they can be made to be very fast cheap in something which looks close to something stock.

An XJ marking the fast time of the day in autocross is simply more interesting to a wider audience than another (in todays world) boosted 4 cylinder... The little engine that could is kinda played out.

I hope what I said didn't come across at all as if I am beating up on them at all... I am not. To be clear, I'm thrilled with how a everything went, including my blurb in the mag. There wasn't a real interest in the Shadow, which I am not surprised about....it's magic is under the skin (I will say there is a lot more going on with that car than the motor though) and while very clean, it's not a wild looking build. I never expected the shadow to make any real waves while down there.

What does make me smile a bit though is that despite it's sedate appearance, it was the fastest car there combining the autox and drag times. Winning the dynamic time again was a thrill for me. Honestly, that was my goal going down there I wasnt expecting an overall win, but I did really want to be the fastest. Plus, think that surprised a few, which is always fun. I did throw in a little zinger above about some builds not working in my previous post, but it was a bit of a joke. Wild does not always equal works, even if it does catch eyes (and sell magazines, which is thier business!)

And the cover? The Jeep absolutely earned that spot. That thing is beyond ridiculous with its performance. Hell, I own the Shadow and I wouldn't have put it on the cover!

So, no sour grapes here. Nor should there be with anyone in the community. It's hard to be sour when the big trophy went to a TM. :-)

[Pat]

And for the record, I am already working on my $2014 project. If this works out, this one should blow away both the ScAries and Shadow.

[2.216VTurbo]

And for the record, I am already working on my $2014 project. If this works out, this one should blow away both the ScAries and Shadow.

Hmmm... Teaser maybe??

[Pat]

Hmmm... Teaser maybe??

Sure, here's a hint...you own one.

[vipernbox]

It wasn't you that set me off Pat.

Some of these guys are just fighting to hard to maintain underdog status.

[Vigo]

I think vipernbox and reaper1 both make great points. Like i say, everyone knows the shadow is a great car. Pat, and the rest of us, dont need that cover. Everybody knows the car is great anyway. If we wanted to win the GRM popularity contest we'd all be driving miatas. I still think it's great that GRM is the closest thing to a '2nd home' these cars/owners have online outside of these mopar forums. People over there don't get real worked up about them but they very much accept and acknowledge them. I think the thing is, like vipernbox said, these things are no secret any longer. If anything, i think a lot of people see them as downer/foil. There are a lot of people who show up in turbo/v8 miatas and e30s and v8 rx7s and mustangs and camaros and vettes and all go home beat by k-cars. We don't really have underdog status with them anymore. It's actually closer to the opposite.

[2.216VTurbo]

Sure, here's a hint...you own one.

OK, but racing with a TC Masi is gonna have it's challenges Those things are heavy....

[SilverFleet]

Pat, you guys shouldn't have to worry about the Jeep anymore, because I don't know if it's ever going to make it back to the Challenge. We have a new project now :





And to the people that don't "get" the Jeep: I don't blame you. You kinda have to see the thing to understand. If someone told me that a Jeep XJ was an unbelievably good corner carving track machine 10 years ago, I would have laughed at them. The thing is absolutely ridiculous! And there's no tricks, it's pretty much all Jeep, except the Ford Exploder rear end and the turbo/megasquirt.

I can't wait to see what you have up your sleeve for this year. I hopefully will be there again.

[vipernbox]

Oh holy crap! I love those cars!! When I was about 15 yrs old I had earned enough money to buy my first car. There was one of those AMC's that someone had done a full AMX package on with the wheel flares, ducktail and everything... V8.. God that thing was awesome...

I should have bought it... but I let my dad talk me out of it...

Looking forward to this one!



So what is the plan? 2.2/2.5? Turbocharged 4.0L jeep?

[SilverFleet]

I think we are leaning toward a turbo Jeep 4.5L/4.7L Stroker if we keep it under budget. We need to figure out how to make it handle first. Also, it has a 3-speed auto, which will most likely get replaced by whatever that bulletproof 4-speed auto that comes in the Cherokees. If it can handle what we are doing in the XJ-R, it can handle anything. We have a spare 4.2L and a spare 4.0L hanging out right now, as well as some turbo bits and another MegaSquirt setup.

I can still build my CSX under budget... WAY under budget... if I ever decide to drag it down there. I think I have maybe $20-30 into the entire build right now, given how much I've bought and sold so far.

[Ondonti]

If anything, i think a lot of people see them as downer/foil. There are a lot of people who show up in turbo/v8 miatas and e30s and v8 rx7s and mustangs and camaros and vettes and all go home beat by k-cars. We don't really have underdog status with them anymore. It's actually closer to the opposite.

People build those cars thinking they have a silver bullet but what this competition does is remind them that it is $ that makes those setups fast, not innate ability. That fact completely blows up the point of building those "easy" cars.

My statement only implies it being hilarious to win if that is not what editors would like to see happen. We all have bias and its impossible to keep it out of our thinking and planning in an event like this. Contests would not be fun if we didn't care who won. Its more funny if participants lose and have a hard time accepting it (see above people who think they have silver bullets).

[Reaper1]

I'll +1 on the Jeep being phenomenal to watch. I got the opportunity to see it the year before last in action...yeah...it's crazy fast! Plus, that 4.0 engine is a GREAT mill...I know the offroad guys love them, but they really don't have that much "street cred" simply because they aren't typically "suped up" to go fast. Heck, I even remember reading someplace that it was believed the engine couldn't handle boost....yeah...ok...

[wheming]

Pat, you guys shouldn't have to worry about the Jeep anymore, because I don't know if it's ever going to make it back to the Challenge. We have a new project now :





And to the people that don't "get" the Jeep: I don't blame you. You kinda have to see the thing to understand. If someone told me that a Jeep XJ was an unbelievably good corner carving track machine 10 years ago, I would have laughed at them. The thing is absolutely ridiculous! And there's no tricks, it's pretty much all Jeep, except the Ford Exploder rear end and the turbo/megasquirt.

I can't wait to see what you have up your sleeve for this year. I hopefully will be there again.

I really miss my 79 AMX, and my 81 AMC Spirit DL that was converted to an AMX clone when I had to junk the 79.
The Spirit got a 350 chevy and TH350, and got better gas mileage than the 4.2L! It was my high school and college car.

The 4spd's were a Ford tranny I believe. (The 79 was a 4.2L 4spd.)