Please help me learn about "IMSA Style" 2.0L destroked 2.2 engines.

[2.216VTurbo]

Jetmugg,
Sent you a PM for a crank.

Does it look like this

[Vigo]

I pm'd him with a tip on a crank too. Judging by this thread you'd think they were EVERYWHERE.

[Jetmugg]

I'm supposed to be meeting up with a semi-local guy next week who has a collection of IMSA related 2.0 goodies. I'm hoping we can work something out! These cranks are certainly not growing on trees, but I have been pleasantly surprised that they are still "out there" and somewhat available.

Steve.

[glhs727]

I'm supposed to be meeting up with a semi-local guy next week who has a collection of IMSA related 2.0 goodies. I'm hoping we can work something out! These cranks are certainly not growing on trees, but I have been pleasantly surprised that they are still "out there" and somewhat available.

Steve.

well if he doesn't have any, I have a one I can sell. Good luck sounds like a cool project!

[5DIGITS]

Does it look like this

Nice crank !

Alan,
Whats hilarious is how some of these came to be, including the 2.0L touring car cranks.
There is a small machine shop/fab area outside one of the garages in the headquarters bldg.
The lab guys would take the cranks to a band saw and remove the counter-weights and hand grind them so they could be sent out for balancing.
The idea was - It's a four cylinder and opposed weight. As long as the throws/counters were equal, it was a 'mass' wash and HP gain.

The one pictured didn't have the throw completely removed like others, but received many angle cuts on the lathe until the cut neared the opposing side of the counter weight.

Very cool !!

[Jetmugg]

I'm definitely encouraged by the amount of knowledge and parts in circulation to build a "production" based 2 liter engine based on an early 2.2 block and head (possibly a DC/MP head)? I've been doing some searching, but haven't found much that's related to the exact combinations that were run in IMSA, in terms of pistons, and rods in particular. Does anyone know if the connecting rods were 1-off special parts (Oliver, Carillo, etc), or if there was a DC/MP rod that was used on the 2 liter IMSA engines?

I'm hoping to get together with a local guy who has a stash of parts, machine shop, dyno, etc. and has ownership stake in at least 2 Dodge race cars of the correct vintage.

In the meantime, I'm craving any technical details I can get my hands on, including estimates of HP for the destroked NA versions of this engine. Compression ratios, head flow numbers, valve sizes, rpm operating ranges, etc. would be fantastic. I wish I could find a technical article on how Dodge built the competition engines, but I haven't seen anything online yet.

On race gas, I'm working under the assumption that 250 HP is attainable for a dedicated engine, maybe in the range of 7,000 rpm+.

Steve.

[GLHS60]

Around 1985 there was a 2.2 engine book put out by Hot Rod magazine that has a lot of IMSA specific stuff in it. They come up for sale occasionally. I see there is a new crank on Ebay right now.

Thanks
Randy

[contraption22]

I'm pretty excited about this build.

[Jetmugg]

WAYYYY back in the '80's, I owned an '80 Dodge 024 with the 1.7L VW gasser engine. At that time, I bought a book entitled something like "FWD Mopar Performance", or something similar. It was mostly information about suspension, brakes, setting up a car for the track, etc. I ended up putting a Shelby Charger suspension on that car, gutting most of the interior, and fabbing up a flat "rear deck" area where the hatch and back seat would normally be.

Sounds like I should be on the lookout for that Hot Rod book as well.

Back then, it was my dream to build up my 024 in stages (I even had the stages named). Stage 1 was to be a 2.2 Turbo engine and FWD layout. Stage 2 was going to be a RWD conversion, based on the RWD crossmember that was available at the time for Dodge Daytona's and the like. I wanted to run an aluminum Chevy V6 (4.3L) and keep it stout but still streetable. There were a few drag cars at the time, that were either 024's or Shelby Chargers, which had been converted to RWD, and which looked fantastic tubbed in the rear. Stage 3 was going to be a full-on race car transformation for the drag strip.

I still kick myself for getting rid of that 024. By the time I graduated from college (metallurgical engineering), the 024 had developed a bad habit of dying randomly on the highway. I tried different distributors, ignition modules, chased wiring gremlins, but could never solve that mystery. As soon as I graduated and got a "Real Job", I traded the 024 in on a V8 Dakota. I've been kicking myself since then. In 2003, I traded in the Dakota on an '03 Ram 2500. In '13, I traded in the '03 Ram 2500 on a 2013 Ram 2500. The blue 024 still shows up in my dreams, though.

This Rampage kind of fills in my longing for that old 024, but the hole in my heart isn't completely healed yet. There may be an 024, Charger 2.2, or Shelby in my future.

Anyway, back to the Rampage / land speed racing deal... Since I was about 10 years old, I can remember being in love with the idea of racing at Bonneville. The Rampage has become my chance to live out my dream as far as LSR goes. Right now, I'm committed to running the 1.5L turbodiesel at SpeedWeek next year, but I'm already thinking about what comes next. I have the basis for a 2 liter diesel engine already mounted on an engine stand in my garage. However, if I can "partner up" with someone who has a 2-liter 2.2 engine, I may have to switch to the gasser classes next.

I'm not sure if I've posted a link yet, but here's the entire "build thread" for my Rampage so far....


http://www.landracing.com/forum/inde...c,10625.0.html

Steve.

[83scamp]

To answer your question, yes there should be plenty of meat to upgrade to 11 mm headbolts. I think (dont quote me) that mopar performance / direct connection used to offer a tap kit to "upgrade" your early blocks to the stronger 11 mm headbolts.

You are correct. MP used to offer the kit to do it. I had the machine shop do mine on their mill so I knew the holes were perfectly vertical to the deck.

Around 1985 there was a 2.2 engine book put out by Hot Rod magazine that has a lot of IMSA specific stuff in it. They come up for sale occasionally. I see there is a new crank on Ebay right now.

Thanks
Randy

I have this book at home! I know there was some info on the 2.0 IMSA stuff. I'll have to look when I get a chance.

[Jetmugg]

Does anyone have a photo of the Hot Rod book? I'm trying to do a search for the book, and it would be nice to be able to know one when I see it.

As far as drilling and tapping the block, I think I would also use a vertical milling machine for that job.

I found an old (1989) copy of the Mopar Performance catalog, which still included that drill& tap kit. It did not, however, include any of the IMSA internal engine goodies. I'm on the search for an MP / DC catalog from earlier in the 80's, which would hopefully include the IMSA hard parts. I love having the MP/DC part#'s.

[Vigo]

Steve, would you have to run an unported head? Or a head ported and then offered 'from the factory' that way? I would guess you could still hit your power goal with a 'factory ported' head but it would be tougher to find and probably require more rpm and cam vs a bigger head.

Can you just summarize the class limitations on the engine build?

[Jetmugg]

Here's a snapshot of the engine rules for Production classes:

The engine used shall have been available in the model of vehicle used as purchased from any automobile dealer. A different displacement size of the same engine design may be used provided it does not constitute an engine swap. (Engine swap is designated as follows):

An engine swap is defined as the use of an engine from an engine design family that was not available as a factory or dealer installed option for a given vehicle year. An engine design family is defined as engines which are made with the same basic material, have the same bore centers, crankshaft supports, deck height, cam location, head mounting, bell housing, and engine mount patterns.

The use of an OEM or aftermarket replacement block from the same design family is not considered an engine swap. "Crate engines" are not considered engine swaps. Direc replacement aftermarket engine blocks are not considered engine swaps (i.e. Dart, World Products, etc) if they meet the other engine swap design criteria.

- - - Updated - - -

The only text regarding cylinder heads are that "Cylinder heads are limited to the original number of valves and port configuration".

Porting is allowed, and is almost essential to success. What you can't do is switch to a later model crossflow head, a Masi head, etc.

Steve.

[Jetmugg]

It's OK to port the living snot out of an OEM head, put in bigger valves, bigger cam, change between hydraulic and mechanical cams, change connecting rods, cranks, pistons, etc.

The basic block and head geometry are the items that need to be ostensibly production pieces.

Direct Connection / Mopar Performance blocks, heads, and hard parts that are compatible with a 2.2 are all acceptable as "production".

Steve.

[GLHS60]

1987-1988 Turbo II block would be ideal as it will be crossdrilled, already have 11 mm head bolts and the early style crank is a drop in.

Thanks
Randy

[GLHS60]

Here is a picture of the Hot Rod book along with a couple of pages of IMSA stuff. Most of the block mods. are out dated as the Turbo II block is superior than the early stuff.

Thanks
Randy

[Jetmugg]

Excellent, thank you Randy. Now I know what I'm looking for. Regarding the '87-88 turbo blocks, that's exactly the kind of detailed tech info that I was hoping to find.

PS - great looking Rampage.

[Vigo]

It's OK to port the living snot out of an OEM head, put in bigger valves, bigger cam, change between hydraulic and mechanical cams, change connecting rods, cranks, pistons, etc.

The basic block and head geometry are the items that need to be ostensibly production pieces.

Well then, i think this engine build will be easier than or on par with your diesel build as far as sourcing parts. As im sure you well know we could have had you probably 10 pairs of headlights covers for your Rampage if it weren't for stringent OEM stipulations. In this case any of the ubiquitous blocks and heads that fit the rule will support your goal. I may not be much harder to get a 2.0 crank than it is to find any of several parts on your diesel motor like the non-usdm intake manifold (iirc). The side-draft manifold bases will probably cost you more than the crank if you end up going that way.

[Jetmugg]

True - the side draft stuff looks spendy, no matter what engine it's going on.

Regarding the diesel stuff, some of what I had was never available in the USA on any production vehicle, but "Diesel Truck" does not have the same requirements as "Production" classes. Engine swaps are legal in DT.

What is the general consensus on using some kind of individual runner fuel injection, as opposed to the side-drafts (in terms of cost, complexity, and power potential). I know there has been a LOT of improvement in fuel injection systems since the 80's.

For what I want to do, driveability is not a concern, only making good power at elevated RPM's. I know that one of the higher-end LSR teams uses an AEM management system on their VW Rabbit Pickup truck. That truck has run as fast as 194 mph with a turbo 2 liter VW on gasoline. I'm going to try to post a video of that truck - they used to have some of their videos online, but may have taken them down. In any event, a 194 mph VW pickup is EXTREMELY fast.

Steve

[Jetmugg]

OK, I know it's not a Mopar, but here's an in-truck video of a VW Rabbit pickup running 195 mph with a 2 liter turbo VW under the hood.

http://whitegoosebar.com/images/Vide...1run2front.flv

Steve.