I mean a real wing. GT style. It would give the car added height it needs in the back.
So it looks like I will be picking up Frankenstein on Friday the 13th.
Major items on the list are AC charge and testing
I mean a real wing. GT style. It would give the car added height it needs in the back.
So it looks like I will be picking up Frankenstein on Friday the 13th.
Major items on the list are AC charge and testing
Did your stock throttle cable work with your engine swap?
Great stuff for great cars! Poly engine mounts and bushings at: http://www.polybushings.com
Need to ask Brian about that but I don't remember the throttle cable being part of our build conversation.
Johhny you guys are hard core and must be packing light for the sdac trip.
Do you have a donut spare tire?
I'd be concerned that the wing may affect the airflow for cooling. I doubt the car needs it as the built in Gurney flap should provide plenty of downforce.Originally Posted by 168glhs1986
87 GLHS ,66 Hemi Coronet, 69 Road Runner, 70 Challenger-"Vanishing Point", 68 Road Runner "Petty",69 ZL1 Corvette,2016 Scat Pack Challenger,67 Corvette vintage racer,Cadillac ATS Turbo, 66 GTO road racer,67 911S, Ford V Ferrari Porsche 906 and Ferrari P3
We have a spare pair of underwear and a pair of socks.Johhny you guys are hard core and must be packing light for the sdac trip.
I have it in the shop, but the soft top is there now. I have a AAA card!Do you have a donut spare tire?
Great stuff for great cars! Poly engine mounts and bushings at: http://www.polybushings.com
I'm no aerodynamicist, but a raised wing may actually cause a high pressure zone along the back of the car from about where the motor is to the back edge of it. I would have to look at a book I'm currently reading, but based off of some tests I've read about I think that is the most likely scenario.
I'd agree with this.
As far as the wing, make sure there is a problem to solve before coming up with solutions.
Mike Marra
1986 Plymouth Horizon GLMF "The Contraption" < entertaining sponsorship offers
Project Log:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?69708-The-Contraption-2013-14&highlight=
^^ the problem may or may not exist but i still would want to improve upon the looks of the car.
Now if it's going to hurt the aero forged aboud it.
Although no one except a aero expert and a wind tunnel can tell me if it will hurt or not.
I do know the intruder has had a wing and it looks awesome.
I will know once I get this car up to speed on the track.
I have a feeling it will be fine and stable at speed.
Last edited by 168glhs1986; 06-11-2014 at 06:26 PM.
I don't know that you need a wind tunnel. I don't know that you need a rear wing either though. All that being said, check out the early wings on the can-am cars. They're what I'm reading about now and their shape is similar to that of the consulier. Probably not by accident. I would think that the developments in aero from the later 60s into the 70s are what really influenced the design of the consulier since that was most likely all public knowledge by then. I could be way off base though.
You had to be a man to drive those cars with their crazy turbo hp numbers
There will be no high pressure area in front of the wing (more appropriately "airfoil", but anyway). The air in front of an aerodynamically effective airfoil won't know it's even there until just ahead of it (meaning maybe a few inches, if that). The magic happens over and under the airfoil. Then afterwards you are dealing with flow vorticies which can influence engine cooling if its placement is such that the vortex formed after the trailing edge wraps up into the rear grill. The thing is that the car is designed with a diffuser. The air coming off of that will disrupt the vortex coming off of the wing and should actually help "blow" that air away. This also reduces drag by reducing the low pressure area behind the car. It does not eliminate it, so for the cooling you are still able to have airflow due to the high/low pressure differential across the heat exchanger.
It is completely possible to disrupt the aerodynamic balance of the car by arbitrarily adding a wing. Worst case it will push the car down too much and make the front end light at high speed while also increasing drag. The best case is that it does add downforce, but doesn't mess with the car's balance. It will still add drag. In other words, if you care about the car's performance more than looks...don't add a wing unless it really is needed.
For testing there are lots of ways to do that. Downforce is a bit tricky without a wind tunnel, but it's still possible. You need to have linear potentiometers on each wheel's suspension and hook them up to a data logger. It would be best to drive in a straight line so you aren't loading one side of the suspension more than the other. Start recording while sitting still all the way up to whatever speed is safe (keeping in mind that even real race wings require speeds usually more than 60mph to be truly effective) then slow back down to a stop, then stop recording. Taking the data recorded you should be able to assign each recorded channel a trend line so you can see if the suspension compressed at higher speeds, and if so, how much and was it even? This probably should be repeated at least 3 times, but the more the better.
To see if airflow is backing up into the car, water based die, tufts, or smoke will all work. With the advantage of having small cameras like GoPro's, you can mount it so you can record what is going on very easily. This applies all over the body of the car.
HTH
^^ thanks for the Advice ^^
Wow the amount of knowledge that comes out on this forum is astounding sometimes. Great information!There will be no high pressure area in front of the wing (more appropriately "airfoil", but anyway). The air in front of an aerodynamically effective airfoil won't know it's even there until just ahead of it (meaning maybe a few inches, if that). The magic happens over and under the airfoil. Then afterwards you are dealing with flow vorticies which can influence engine cooling if its placement is such that the vortex formed after the trailing edge wraps up into the rear grill. The thing is that the car is designed with a diffuser. The air coming off of that will disrupt the vortex coming off of the wing and should actually help "blow" that air away. This also reduces drag by reducing the low pressure area behind the car. It does not eliminate it, so for the cooling you are still able to have airflow due to the high/low pressure differential across the heat exchanger.
It is completely possible to disrupt the aerodynamic balance of the car by arbitrarily adding a wing. Worst case it will push the car down too much and make the front end light at high speed while also increasing drag. The best case is that it does add downforce, but doesn't mess with the car's balance. It will still add drag. In other words, if you care about the car's performance more than looks...don't add a wing unless it really is needed.
For testing there are lots of ways to do that. Downforce is a bit tricky without a wind tunnel, but it's still possible. You need to have linear potentiometers on each wheel's suspension and hook them up to a data logger. It would be best to drive in a straight line so you aren't loading one side of the suspension more than the other. Start recording while sitting still all the way up to whatever speed is safe (keeping in mind that even real race wings require speeds usually more than 60mph to be truly effective) then slow back down to a stop, then stop recording. Taking the data recorded you should be able to assign each recorded channel a trend line so you can see if the suspension compressed at higher speeds, and if so, how much and was it even? This probably should be repeated at least 3 times, but the more the better.
To see if airflow is backing up into the car, water based die, tufts, or smoke will all work. With the advantage of having small cameras like GoPro's, you can mount it so you can record what is going on very easily. This applies all over the body of the car.
HTH
I know. Reaper acts like he's some sort of nuclear engineer or something. Pfft, show off.
[SIZE="3"] [B]Jon Trotter[/B][/SIZE] [B]1985[/B] Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned [B]1987[/B] Shelby GLHS, #937 [B]1987[/B] Shelby Lancer, #628 [QUOTE=Reeves;587010]I can be ready. Please send pics of wife. _____DodgeZ add comments here______[/QUOTE]
I've always thought he fancies himself more of a rocket scientist type.I know. Reaper acts like he's some sort of nuclear engineer or something. Pfft, show off.
It's been a year in the making and it looks like I will be picking Frankenstein up tomorrow.
Brian called me today and said.....the boost accidently went to 20 psi and it was INSANE !
He said the boost goes from 10 to 20 in an instant and with the mid engine / rear wheel drive combo it just hooks.
I'll be setting it around 12 psi ish until I can get some miles on it. Plan is a trailer / drive combo out to Wisconsin.
Picking him up tomorrow around noon and driving straight to Ocean City Md for the weekend.
I was wrong about their being higher pressure. It looks like the book shows that the pressure was lower with the wing in the spoiled condition. Do you think that their diagram is off? Perhaps they were misinterpreting the results of the trial? I am probably the one missing somthing for sure.There will be no high pressure area in front of the wing (more appropriately "airfoil", but anyway). The air in front of an aerodynamically effective airfoil won't know it's even there until just ahead of it (meaning maybe a few inches, if that). The magic happens over and under the airfoil. Then afterwards you are dealing with flow vorticies which can influence engine cooling if its placement is such that the vortex formed after the trailing edge wraps up into the rear grill. The thing is that the car is designed with a diffuser. The air coming off of that will disrupt the vortex coming off of the wing and should actually help "blow" that air away. This also reduces drag by reducing the low pressure area behind the car. It does not eliminate it, so for the cooling you are still able to have airflow due to the high/low pressure differential across the heat exchanger.
It is completely possible to disrupt the aerodynamic balance of the car by arbitrarily adding a wing. Worst case it will push the car down too much and make the front end light at high speed while also increasing drag. The best case is that it does add downforce, but doesn't mess with the car's balance. It will still add drag. In other words, if you care about the car's performance more than looks...don't add a wing unless it really is needed.
For testing there are lots of ways to do that. Downforce is a bit tricky without a wind tunnel, but it's still possible. You need to have linear potentiometers on each wheel's suspension and hook them up to a data logger. It would be best to drive in a straight line so you aren't loading one side of the suspension more than the other. Start recording while sitting still all the way up to whatever speed is safe (keeping in mind that even real race wings require speeds usually more than 60mph to be truly effective) then slow back down to a stop, then stop recording. Taking the data recorded you should be able to assign each recorded channel a trend line so you can see if the suspension compressed at higher speeds, and if so, how much and was it even? This probably should be repeated at least 3 times, but the more the better.
To see if airflow is backing up into the car, water based die, tufts, or smoke will all work. With the advantage of having small cameras like GoPro's, you can mount it so you can record what is going on very easily. This applies all over the body of the car.
HTH
- - - Updated - - -
ETA: Thanks for suggesting this book. I'm really happy that I broke down and bought it.
Right, "accidentally went to 20 psi..." just like if I was driving a hellcat challenger the pedal would "accidentally" go to the floor.
I cant wait to hear/see a track video of this car...
I know. Reaper acts like he's some sort of nuclear engineer or something. Pfft, show off.No...Rocket Surgeon!!I've always thought he fancies himself more of a rocket scientist type.
So, yes, there will be a lower pressure area on the deck under the wing. The reason is that the air velocity is increasing there...increase velocity, decrease pressure. From the pressure diagram you can see that at the wing's 1/4 chord the deck pressure is the lowest (this is also where the wing's lift will be the highest, typically). Remember that the low pressure area is opposite of what you want in an airplane, so the lift in this case is in the opposite direction. Because the wing is in "close" proximity to the deck, this acts like a duct, so the net pressure on the car at that area is lower than in front of the wing. What they are showing in the math is that the lift (downforce in our terms) generated by the wing overcomes the low pressure created by the "duct". The pressure on the deck in front of the wing is more affected by the body's shape than the wing.
By the basic shape of the car depicted there will be a slight low pressure area after the driver due to disruption of airflow, then the airflow smooths back out and speeds back up to create a higher pressure behind that. Then you get into the "duct" shaped by the interaction between the wing and the body.
I hope that makes sense. If I can remember, and if I can find them, I'll try to look at my notes from my aero labs and my static stability and controls class. Both talk about what we are messing with here. I am working off of pure memory here, so I would like to try to double check myself.
I'm I the only one who get's this? Your memory is quite accurate.
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