T3 GTP build

[Rrider]

What you need is huge carbon fiber canards on the sides of your car. Thats the thing.

[contraption22]

Yes! Canards!

[Rrider]

Raising the rear up will take weight off of the front end, no?

[DetroitTurbo]

Yes this we know ^^

Just putting it out there incase someone didn't. ;-)

[86Shelby]

Perhaps another option would be a simple airdam under the nose?

[Reaper1]

Oky, lets make one. I want one also.

It might not be worth building one as there are universal ones out there that you can buy that are made out of material that is robust enough to handle the pressure of the downforce as well as be flexible enough to not shatter when it rubs on something. They aren't "cheap", though. I've seen people use plywood for this purpose (it works), but I'm thinking that would look like crap on a car like this.

I guess i could drill a braket into the face of my bumper and install the vertical threaded rod there to mount to the splitter.

The support rods aren't typically vertical. They usually have some angle to them because they connect the bumper to the front edge of the splitter, which should stick out in front of the car. Check some racing classes that allow them as their rules will give you an idea of how far to push the front out. They limit that because of how effective they are. I'm not saying to adhere to the rules, just use them as a guide for the design and set-up.

The reason the air is moving slower under the car/wing is because there is more air, so if you limit the amount of air going under the car with a splitter, the air speeds up and will be moving faster than the air over the top, reversing the effects of lift.

There isn't more air than what flows over/around the rest of the car. Comparatively there is very little. It's the fact, as you stated and I think most people in this discussion know, that the velocity is much lower, so the pressure is higher under the car. Yes, reducing the amount of air that can make it under the car will reduce lift, but the reason is because of the decrease in the volume of air available to incur the high pressure area.

Raising the rear up will take weight off of the front end, no?

No. Raising the rear will increase the weight on the front of the car. There is more mass being "pushed" through the center of gravity by raising the rear. A simple force diagram will visually explain why.

[Rrider]

There is more mass being "pushed" through the center of gravity by raising the rear.

My head asplode.

[Reaper1]

Think of it like a half full bottle of water. If it is laying flat there is even weight front to back of the bottle. Now, tilt one end up. The water moves to the lower end and thus increases the weight on that side.

This is a good way to illustrate the weight transfer. Of course the mass of the back of the car doesn't move. It's just that some of the weight of the back of the car is being directed toward the front.

[86Shelby]

That's much better than the analogy of carrying a couch up a flight of stairs I was about to post.

[Johnny]

Saw this ad:

SPLITTERS
any size, style or features
race or street
ph 704-888-9930

www.powerstreamindustries.com

[player1up]

How about a kooky idea for adding downforce to the front end?
Ready? Please allow me to think out loud and excuse the ranting of a mad man

Could one make a "false nose" for the car that has provisions for canards, dive planes or splitters?

In my mind the process looks something like this:
1. Coat the front of the car in something like plastic wrap or aluminum foil ( something that wont stick to the car and protects against fiberglass )
2. lay down a layer of glass to form the inner shape of the nose including ( possibly ) an aluminum plate that continues under the car a few inches ( for mounting purposes )
3. apply foam for molding purposes then shape and add mounting points for things like splitters, canards, dive planes and attaching points )
4. glass outer surface and finish.

Basically the same process for custom body kit pieces, BUT built this way would allow the downforce to be transmitted to the top/front of the fenders and we could use holes in the underside of the car and front license plate or "trunk opening" without making new holes in the body.

Now it would have to be done tastefully and be like a fairly thin "skin" but enough to add some weight and be able to transfer the force to a larger surface of the body.
I'm only thinking fiberglass because I'm pretty sure no one here has access to an ABS forming machine. I've seen a few out there on the web...
something like this:
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=90464
Obviously for the GTP it would have to come up a little more onto the top of the car and this is a huge amount of work but I think it'd be worth it to not have holes all over the front...Sorry it's getting late and I've had a few beers
What do y'all think?




......I'm hoping that the lack of responses telling me I'm a nut job means that everyone's wheels are turning trying to figure out if this would work

[Rrider]

Steps 1 and 2 would be a good start to a mold. Then I think what you do is a bunch of finish work smoothing out the insides with bondo and sanding. Then you spray release lube in there and get to work laying up the actual part itself inside the mold.

You could probably do a removable aero nose pretty light if it were skeletonized with a bunch of open areas. I know road race guys that run splitters remove the whole front bumper from their cars when they load on to trailers. Its pretty common practice. Based on that I think this idea isn't that out-there. This would be less a pain in the neck than that is. Remove for street driving and attach for the track.

[player1up]

Ok so at least one of you here is as looney as me! I'd bet there's more of us out there
That's exactly what I was thinking. Light weight, removable, tasteful, and non damaging.

I've got to think this through, do some research and see if I can swing it with all of the other crap I have in the works. For pete's sake it took me 2 weeks to polish the wheels.
I'm sure I can pull it off, but whether or not it would provide better aero is where my research begins.

[GLHNSLHT2]

honestly I think you're putting to much work into something that isn't needed. Look Mike wanted a big old erector set wing on the back, Now that he's driven it on the track he's crying for more front downforce. Imagine what he'd be doing if he had that wing on there. I think a splitter is all you need just to balance out the car. A splitter maybe 4-6" off the front of the car in the center and tapering back to 2-3" at the corner and then 1-2" off the sides back to the begining of the fenders and bolted to the bottom with dzus fasteners would work well IMO.

[Rrider]

Try driving with a few sandbags stuffed into the nose.. maybe light weight is the opposite of what a GTP needs up front.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Lead weights bolted into the "trunk" Old 911 trick

[168glhs1986]

Great ideas guys!

I also found that a more agressive pad on the rear helps neutralize the car under heavy breaking. Less nose dive.

Your right about the rear wing. That would ave been $1500 out the window.

[Rrider]

Forget overpriced alumilite. Heavy 1" plywood splitter.. scrape it up all you want and it will never break. Weight in the best possible location for balance as a bonus to the aero.

[168glhs1986]

^^ this and good point on the weight. 2 birds with one stone

[Johnny]

Mike

I have my coil-over shocks off to replace the springs with the heavier ones.
You asked about the rear shocks fitting the front so you could use an adjustable shock up there.
Looking at them, I do not see any reason the rears would not fit the front.
You might need to use the lower holes like you did on the rear is all.