Help: Turbonator/custom cal initial timing setup

[wheming]

Still trying to sort through some things. But one thing I have not found is how to perform a timing check with a custom cal.
I'm using a v19 base 2.5 T1 BoostButton cal setup for 3 bar map and 85#/hr (@35psi) injectors.
When I disconnect the coolant temp sensor the car will not run, it stumbles and wants to stall and when I give it some throttle it just hunts.
Is there something I need to disable in the cal temporarily to set/check my initial/base/reference timing?

Last time I adjusted it I had to swap smecs and readjust fuel pressure to be able to check with my timing light. But now I have these BIG injectors and thats not going to work.
Thanks

[cordes]

Give it a bit more timing with the dist and it should stay running.

[ShelGame]

Still trying to sort through some things. But one thing I have not found is how to perform a timing check with a custom cal.
I'm using a v19 base 2.5 T1 BoostButton cal setup for 3 bar map and 85#/hr (@35psi) injectors.
When I disconnect the coolant temp sensor the car will not run, it stumbles and wants to stall and when I give it some throttle it just hunts.
Is there something I need to disable in the cal temporarily to set/check my initial/base/reference timing?

Last time I adjusted it I had to swap smecs and readjust fuel pressure to be able to check with my timing light. But now I have these BIG injectors and thats not going to work.
Thanks

Engine warm or cold? I'd for sure try to do this with the engine warm. It will be way too rich (cold) with those injectors.

[wheming]

Give it a bit more timing with the dist and it should stay running.

I'm trying to check and set the dist timing reference.
I had it set to about 10 btdc at sdac but I had swapped computers to do it. Now that won't work with these 1000cc injectors.

Yes Rob, always trying warm.
When it sees the coolant temp fail, it must fail low so it thinks it needs more fuel? It should be in limp home mode, right? I don't think I could ever limp home like that! It won't stay running. It stumbles and rpms are low and when you catch it with some throttle it hunts.
How are you all ever checking your timing with it like that?
Is there a way to disable it temporarily or give it a fake value so it can run?
Or, is this an indication something else isn't right? Like off a cam tooth or something? I just can't see that for how good it runs normally.

Thanks for any suggestions!

[Aries_Turbo]

are all the limp in constants scaled for inj and map, Rob?

Brian

[ShelGame]

I'm trying to check and set the dist timing reference.
I had it set to about 10 btdc at sdac but I had swapped computers to do it. Now that won't work with these 1000cc injectors.

Yes Rob, always trying warm.
When it sees the coolant temp fail, it must fail low so it thinks it needs more fuel? It should be in limp home mode, right? I don't think I could ever limp home like that! It won't stay running. It stumbles and rpms are low and when you catch it with some throttle it hunts.
How are you all ever checking your timing with it like that?
Is there a way to disable it temporarily or give it a fake value so it can run?
Or, is this an indication something else isn't right? Like off a cam tooth or something? I just can't see that for how good it runs normally.

Thanks for any suggestions!

With the CTS unplugged, it defaults to a coolant temp of ~180F.

My guess is that those injectors are just too big to get a decent idle. At idle, the PW for 1000cc injectors is probably less than the latency. Which means it's impossible to get a small enough PW to idle at a 'normal' AFR. What are your AFR's when you unplug the CTS?

- - - Updated - - -

are all the limp in constants scaled for inj and map, Rob?

Brian

There's nothing to scale for coolant temp...

[wheming]

I'll have to check what the afr reads when doing this. But the +40's did the same thing as well.

I'd try to get a log but I've never been able to sort out the logging issues either.

[Aries_Turbo]

There's nothing to scale for coolant temp...

just wondering.

wayne, back off the fuel pressure as you unplug it till it runs well. then try.

Brian

[wheming]

I haven't yet tried to lower fuel pressure. I'm running these 95#/hr ones at 35 psi (85#/hr). Don't know if I'll be able to lower pressure enough.

Also checked a min ago since I had to go out. With coolant temp sensor unplugged and engine warm the afr was 10.2. And rpm was about 500. It stayed running but wasn't happy.
I thought the rpm's were supposed to rise with the sensor unplugged?

When I tried to check with a timing light before like this timing was all over the place. But trying to give it more throttle smooths out the timing to a more constant value. But then the rpms hunt.
I had previously checked the shutter on the dizzy and it was modded with some JB. I will probably check again though.

[cordes]

The timing mark jumping all over when the CTS is unplugged is highly indicative of a mechanical problem in the dist.

[wheming]

It was seeming to me it was the computer's attempt to keep it from stalling. It showed a more steady timing value when throttled up a bit, although then it would hunt.
But I will check it tomorrow and possibly just order another.

[cordes]

Unless I'm mistaken, with the CTS unplugged, the cal reverts to nothing more than the distributor timing, which is why you do that to set it in the first place. I would be highly suspect of a bouncing line with the CTS unplugged.

[wheming]

If that is the case, why would the afr drop from 14.7 to 10.2?
Maybe I have more than one issue...

[ShelGame]

If that is the case, why would the afr drop from 14.7 to 10.2?
Maybe I have more than one issue...

Using a charge temp sensor? Try turning it off in the cal, at least to set timing. It could be the IAT is going to default also. If it can run 14.x when in closed loop idle, then its not the big injectors...

[88C/S]

I would get another distributor, JB Weld on the shutter could be suspect. Have Rob's cal with 95# injectors and can set the timing by unplugging the CTS with no problem. Running 43 psi on the regulator IIRC.

[wheming]

Using a charge temp sensor? Try turning it off in the cal, at least to set timing. It could be the IAT is going to default also. If it can run 14.x when in closed loop idle, then its not the big injectors...

No charge temp sensor.
Yes idles fine normally and hovers right at 14.7
And the cal does have the charge temp sensor disabled.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll probably order a dist.

[ShelGame]

Another thing that might be causing the richness and timing to move around is, if the RPM drops too far, the ECU may go into 'starting mode'; in which case the fuel and spark will be different from the basic setup timing. But, IIRC, that RPM is ~533rpm. So, it would have to drop pretty far down...

[wheming]

Which it is doing. I didn't have the scanner on it but looked like about 500. Barely enough to keep running.

So what would make the idle rpm so low? Does the goal change when CTS is unplugged?

[ShelGame]

Which it is doing. I didn't have the scanner on it but looked like about 500. Barely enough to keep running.

So what would make the idle rpm so low? Does the goal change when CTS is unplugged?

Could be the base throttle opening is too low. There's a method to set the throttle stop screw on the TB, I forget the exact procedure.

[cordes]

Could be the base throttle opening is too low. There's a method to set the throttle stop screw on the TB, I forget the exact procedure.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/kn...dle-Adjustment