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Thread: MPScanDroid

  1. #61
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    Something like this - http://www.ebay.com/itm/CX919-RK3188...item3a94c93d2b

    Quad core, comes with Jelly Bean, there are custom ROM's out there to install KitKat on it, has BT and WiFi, 1 full-size USB port, USB host mode, and it even has a MicroSD slot for datalog storage. Should work and it's only $45.

    Need to find a 12v-to-5v power supply to run it from the car.
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    wowzer, can you tell me how I can get MPScanDroid to use a bluetooth converter I am trying to connect to it? Are there options somewhere to pick what device it will use? What does it look for?

    I'd like to experiment with the chinese bluetooth to ttl converter I have coming in the mail, is it possible to tell MPScanDroid to use it?

  3. #63
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    MPSCANDROID working on usb!! VERY AWESOME!!!

    Now looking at what it would take to just get rid of those cables and use bluetooth..its just a matter of baud rates and a little buffering. Theres got to be a way to pull it off with a $3 chinese bluetooth to ttl adapter at a standard baud rate, with the simplest of MCU's added to buffer and convert the baud rate to the weird ECU rates..just a black box pass-through??

    http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...ml#post3402530


  4. #64
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    okay hear me out..I have a possible idea for the bluetooth solution

    you know those ELM327 bluetooth to OBD2 adapters everyone has?

    well, I just took mine apart, and the list of ingredients in it is exactly whats needed to make a bluetooth to chrysler SCI converter

    first, its got a BC417 based bluetooth modem. It is a well documented modem with public, well written, english datasheets, and its basically the same one I've been talking about on Ebay for $3.

    Then , its got a PIC MCU.

    So the PIC MCU talks to the modem via AT commands to configure it and then when its paired, as a serial port pass through.

    The modem only supports standard baud rates, but thats no big deal, the PIC is what ends up talking to the Chrysler ECU (or OBD2 in this case)

    And, this is all totally android compatible because this is the adapter everyone uses with the Torque app to talk to their OBD2 cars.

    And now you can get these things on ebay for about $10 shipped!

    So you get the case, the modem, the bluetooth, the power supply to be powered from vehicle power..its all built into the circuit board already. Even LED's to indicate status.

    All you would need to do is write simple code for the PIC MCU to act as the baud rate changer and bufferer between the bluetooth modem and the chrysler ECU. Easy!! And since you are just making it a super simple go between, no worries about needing to update its firmware like you would with an Android stick that acts as a complex logger.

    The pic on there is an 18F (flash), so maybe you get real lucky and its not locked and you can just upload new code into it using ICSP. Worst case you desolder it then solder a new one on.

    Then, Rob, you make an adapter from OBD2 to Chrysler SCI plug that fits into the OBD2 plug on this (or, since its installed in a slot, not molded with the housing, you replace the connector with your Chrysler ECU connector).

    Peel the ELM327 sticker off, slap a boost button sticker on, and VOILA, Chrysler to Bluetooth ready for MPSCANDROID!

    Maybe you can even figure a way to swap firmware with a switch so that you can turn it back into an OBD2..but at $10 a pop for these its not that big a deal to just make it permanently Chrysler.

    What do you think!?!?!




  5. #65
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    Seems feasible enough. I have the exact same module, actually.

    Maybe I'll open it up and reverse engineer it. Any signs of a port for programming the PIC?
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    Seems feasible enough. I have the exact same module, actually.

    Maybe I'll open it up and reverse engineer it. Any signs of a port for programming the PIC?
    If I'm reading the datasheet right (PIC18F2480), the in-circuit debugger is on pins 28 and 27. Looking at the board it looks they have both of them going to LED's. On this PIC you can configure the pins for many functions..i.e. port io, internal timer stuff, you know the usual. Most likely they just soldered the chip in already programmed, so to use the in circuit stuff youd just have to pop the series resistors for the LED's off and/or cut the leds and hook up. I'm not sure if they can or did lock the chip though. Worst case you buy another one from digikey for $5.36 + $2.00 first class mail and swap it out. Then you have quite the bluetooth/sci playground! Do you already have a PICSTART or something to use as debugger?

    Any word on if wowzer left in the bluetooth code in the current version of MPSCANDROID or is it gone? I paired this with my phone but mpscandroid didnt recognize it. If wowzer can add a few options to MPSCANDROID like the ability to accept bluetooth devices like this as serial ports, and the ability to use standard baud rates, it might be possible to get this rolling pretty fast.

    Looking at the 18F2480 its no surprise its used in this thing. Its got a built in CAN subsystem. And a ton of other serial ports too. I wouldnt be surprised if you could have it do the baud rate and buffering almost entirely in hardware lol.

    And I bet if you turned this into a generic bluetooth to weird-baudrate pass-through device, with maybe some jumpers to set data polarity, youd be able to sell it to lots of OBD-1 people, not just chryslers

    - - - Updated - - -

    oops..not a picstart..an ICD 2 or 3

    I had an extra one but I sold it on ebay a few months ago

  7. #67
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    bluetooth is not in mpscandroid and is disabled/non functioning in mpscan.
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    can you tell what the clock rate is on that chip? hopefully it is a nice even number like 16Mhz. that way the baud rates would line up nicely.
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    Quote Originally Posted by wowzer View Post
    can you tell what the clock rate is on that chip? hopefully it is a nice even number like 16Mhz. that way the baud rates would line up nicely.
    they've got a 4mhz crystal on board..and there is a good chance the 18F supports all kinds of internal clock generator functions as well so who knows whats possible, I bet you can get your baud rate within a couple us

    - - - Updated - - -

    some better pics





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    Re: MPScanDroid

    I tried connecting my ICD2 to the PIC18F2480.

    I used only 5 wires on the ICD2: data, clock, reset, vcc, and ground. Uhm..that may be all of them I dont think there is a 6th wire.

    I connected them on the chip as follows:

    DATA - pin 28
    CLOCK - pin 27
    VCC - pin 20
    GROUND - pin 19
    RESET - pin 1

    Note that they have pin 1 tired directly to Vcc on the board, so I lifted it and soldered the ICD2 reset line directly to it.

    I powered the board via its OBD connector on pins 16 and 1 using a bench supply at 11.6V.

    I also removed R16 and R17 from the board, they are series resistors for two of the LED's which are connected to the PGD (DATA) and PGC (CLOCK) pins on the PIC..guess they didnt plan on using the low voltage programming/debugger.

    Everything went well..target Id read okay.

    I tried reading the chip but it all came up empty.

    So then I read the config bits and it looks like the code is protected from read and write.

    A brief review of the datasheet suggests you can still ERASE the chip and then put your own stuff in it and reset all the code protection. So that may have to be the way to go.

    Before I brick my precious $10 adapter, wowzer could you give me a path in MPSCANDROID so that it will connect to this bluetooth device and try to communicate through it as if it were a normal serial port, and maybe I can get some skeleton code going or maybe even totally working?

    How to deal with the need to change baud rates on the fly? I.e. 62500 to 7812 or whatever. I am thinking some in-band signalling in the form of a long sequence of special escape characters to tell the PIC to change its output baud rate. Is the stuff that gets sent at 7812 special in-itself? Maybe the pic could simply detect that that string is being sent and switch baud rates when it sees it? I'm thinking as little code as possible in the PIC. Super bare bones.

    We may only be a few lines of code away from a working cheap bluetooth option guys!! Maybe if we're lucky? Wowzer whats the scoop? Only you know the guts of MPSCANDROID.

    BTW heres the config bits:




  11. #71
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    I did some reading about that adapter. I found a link where someone tried to do the same as you Asa - with the same result. The chip is both read and write protected.

    Another thing I noticed is that the adapter is setup to communicate via 'K' and 'L' lines. I don't know what 'L' is, but I know our old ECU's do NOT use 'K' line. Basicaly, 'K' line is a multiplexed read/write single line; active high signal. We have separate read/write lines communicating as simple inverted TTL logic. So, I think we can reverse engineer this device and copy a large portion of the circuitry. But, we won't be able to use it as-is without a bunch of modifications.
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  12. #72
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    I did some reading about that adapter. I found a link where someone tried to do the same as you Asa - with the same result. The chip is both read and write protected.
    Thats okay. You can still erase it and put your own code in it if I'm reading the datasheet right. The only reason I didn't try that is because I don't want to brick my adapter because its my only OBD2 scanner at the moment and I need it in case the vette throws a code. If I'm wrong and you can't erase it and reprogram it with whatever you want, then it could just be desoldered and another one installed. Its a SOIC so its very easy to remove. I could swap it with another one in less than 5 minutes. And you can get one from digikey for $7 shipped. Alot cheaper in bulk from elsewhere for a production version most likely.

    I'm not suggesting reusing any of the code in it. I say blank it out and write code from scratch to to the needed baud rate conversions and small amount of buffering needed to make this all work.

    Another thing I noticed is that the adapter is setup to communicate via 'K' and 'L' lines. I don't know what 'L' is, but I know our old ECU's do NOT use 'K' line. Basicaly, 'K' line is a multiplexed read/write single line; active high signal. We have separate read/write lines communicating as simple inverted TTL logic.
    Whatever they are doing with K and L lines doesn't really matter to us. We can just cut and jump 2 or 3 wires to get the serial ports we want wired to the right places. Theres a good chance that the CAN serial module on the PIC can be reconfigured to be a simple 2 wire bit-banger using the same pins they were using for K and L. Even if thats not the case, we can just pick a different serial port on it and use that instead.

    So, I think we can reverse engineer this device and copy a large portion of the circuitry. But, we won't be able to use it as-is without a bunch of modifications.
    I agree, they should be easy modifications though.

    If wowzer can make it so MPSCANDROID will recognize the bluetooth modem in it and try to use it as a serial port, with a standard baud rate, and give me an idea what MPSCANDROID needs to see, I can work on getting this running today and tomorrow. There is a lull while I'm waiting for fitment testing of the intake I'm working on so I'm available for this.

    I cant do anything if MPSCANDROID is ignoring the bluetooth modem.
    Last edited by acannell; 08-03-2014 at 01:21 PM.

  13. #73
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    So, to clarify how the data transactions will work:

    MPSCANDROID: connect to bluetooth modem on the OBD2 adapter

    MPSCANDROID: use it as a serial port at a fixed, standard baud rate (because it only support standard baud rates). lets say 230kbps.

    MPSCANDROID: attempt to send a byte to the ECU through that serial port, lets say at 7812baud

    MPSCANDROID: begin a timer that waits at least how long it would take for the data to be transmitted at 7812, even though its sending it at 230kbps (because PIC will have to send it at 7812)

    PIC on new adapter: see incoming byte from bluetooth modem at 7812. recognize this as one of the special "7812 baud" only bytes. switch output baud rate to ECU to 7812 baud. send byte to ECU.

    ECU: sees data at 7812. sends some kind of response back

    PIC on new adapter: sees response from ECU at 62500/7812 baud rate. sends data to bluetooth modem at 230kbps.

    MPSCANDROID: receives data byte from bluetooth modem at 230kbps

    and the cycle repeats

    there needs to be a little logic on the pic to determine when to switch baud rates, but there are a few ways to do this.

    MPSCANDROID will need to slow its OVERALL data rate down to whatever the data rate would be if it were transmitting at the ECU baud rate..i.e. its sending it at about 4 times the ECU data rate into the PIC (230kbps), we dont want the PIC to have buffer overruns since it can only empty that data at the slow ECU rates of 62500/7812...so the data stream from MPSCANDROID will appear to be short 1 byte bursts with long delays in between. The bursts will be at 230kbps, but combined with the long delays, it becomes 62.5kbps, for instance.

  14. #74
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    I tried a little experiment just to prove how close this is to working.

    Using an app called "Bluetooth SPP" I paired to the OBD2 adapter.

    Then I monitored pin 1 of the bluetooth modem module which is the output of whatever the modem receives, and using the app, sent some characters.

    They appeared on the scope as expected.

    So if we just pretend that instead of the "Bluetooth SPP" app, it was MPSCAN DROID, and we had something to do the baud rate conversion, level inversion, and a few bytes of buffering, we'd have a working converter.

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    Re: MPScanDroid

    If you want to test it with an SBEC, send it 0x12 at 7812 baud until it replies with a 0x12. Then send it any single byte (RAM address) at 62500 baud and you should get back the value at that location.
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    update:

    I decided to go ahead and try erasing the PIC18F2480 in the OBD2 adapter. I'll just buy another one!

    And it worked! I was able to erase it, then upload code into it and do live debugging, using MPLAB with the free C18 compiler.

    So its possible to put whatever code you want into it.

    I also tried to figure out what all the pins on the PIC were connected to. I think I have a pretty solid idea, except for pin 16, which I just can't seem to find a connection to.

    Looks like all the stuff connected to the PIC is pretty innocent and if needed we could remove a resistor here or clip a pin there and disable those connections if needed. Most likely we could just not use them and everything would be fine.

    Heres my messy schematic, I was scribbling it while using the multimeter so sorry its a mess.

    I did some experiments with Android and the BC417 bluetooth module on the adapter. I was able to send bytes from a small program I made on Android and receive them at the output of the bluetooth modem. I was also able to send AT commands to the bluetooth modems hard-wired port with hyperterminal to configure its baud rate, etc..

    So this means there is now confirmation of:

    -Byte transmission and receipt from Android to the Bluetooth modem in the OBD2 adapter
    -Control of the OBD2 bluetooth modem with AT commands
    -The ability to put arbitrary code inside the OBD2 adapter PIC processor

    Which means that right now, technically there are no more mysteries about if its possible to use the OBD2 adapter as cheap hardware to make a Bluetooth Android to Chrysler ECU adapter. Its just a matter of writing/modifying software on the Android (MPSCANDROID) and writing the firmware for the pic!




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    Re: MPScanDroid

    What I would really like to see is a small app that is always running on my phone, and a bluetooth adapter I keep plugged into the Daytona diagnostic port at all times (which only turns on with ignition).

    Then, when I bring my phone in the car, the Android app detects the bluetooth adapter, connects to the Chrysler ECU through it, and begins logging a pre-selected list of several parameters, for the entire drive, without any interaction from me. So its a "black box" essentially.

    Since the data from the ECU is extremely-highly-compressible numeric data heavy in patterns, you could use a simple zip compression to store it and basically log enormous amounts of data, so space wouldn't be a problem.

    Then later I can download the data over wifi from my phone, open the data up in MPSCAN/EXCEL on my laptop and do whatever I need to do with it.

  18. #78
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    good job - curious what software you used to write the android app? java?
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    Re: MPScanDroid

    Quote Originally Posted by wowzer View Post
    good job - curious what software you used to write the android app? java?
    thanks, I've been waiting years for a reason to get into Android development. Finally I have an excuse. I just installed the SDK and threw a bunch of bluetooth code in the main activity with a couple buttons and click listeners. I probably shouldnt call it an app, its more just a bluetooth focused hello world lol. I'm used to straight C for embedded stuff, although I've written some windows programs in notepad so I am somewhat familiar with how on OS API uses objects and lots of handles and methods to get things done, but I think I'm going to have to re-learn variable scope and some other fundamental things, I get the feeling there are some areas that may be quite different from C. I'm not really sure what language it was in..its Java isn't it? Arent there couple flavors going on in Android though?

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    Re: MPScanDroid

    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    What I would really like to see is a small app that is always running on my phone, and a bluetooth adapter I keep plugged into the Daytona diagnostic port at all times (which only turns on with ignition).

    Then, when I bring my phone in the car, the Android app detects the bluetooth adapter, connects to the Chrysler ECU through it, and begins logging a pre-selected list of several parameters, for the entire drive, without any interaction from me. So its a "black box" essentially.
    1st question - How/when do you select the parameters to log? You can't log all of them, there's too many. You'd lose useful resolution of any single channel. In my experience, 10-12 is the most you want to get. So, how would you propose to send a setup file to the logger? Via BT from the 'host' program on Android? Then, you have to worry about syncing them. For example, if the setup changes on the phone while NOT connected, then 'dongle' may send data that the 'host' doesn't understand. Just more stuff to consider when trying to implement this.

    Since the data from the ECU is extremely-highly-compressible numeric data heavy in patterns, you could use a simple zip compression to store it and basically log enormous amounts of data, so space wouldn't be a problem.
    I think space shouldn't be a problem even without compression. Unless you want to log a full day's worth of data. That then becomes an analysis problem. Too much data to parse by a human.
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