Shifter Questions

[dodgeboy77]

Hi Guys,

I have this idea in the back of my mind to someday change my '85 turbo ragtop into a 5-speed car. No definite plans, but enough interest to start collecting parts if I run across any in the local Pick-A-Part bone yard. I have a lot to learn as I don't even know which of the 5-speeds to swap into the car (555? 568?) but I have to start somewhere. I saw pictures of a car like mine with a 5-speed swap and the guy did a really clean job of it.

I ran a across a '94 (7/93 build date) Sundance/Duster in one of the local yards that's a 3.0 V6, 5 speed car. I can get the shifter for about $20. Is this shifter something that I can use? I don't know if the V6 uses a 568 or what and am sure the trans wouldn't bolt to a turbo, but figured the shifter may be usable. I included a couple pics to show the shifter and the end of a cable which seems to be repaired with a washer (ready for a heim end, maybe?).





Would the steel bracket that aluminum shifter is bolted to be welded to the floor pan (easy removal) or bolted? (cordless Sawzall - the junk-yarders tool of choice - or a drill to take out the spot welds)

One other sort of related question: Do these engine/5-speed combinations not use a pilot bearing between the crank and the trans input shaft? I had a FWD 5-speed apart before but it was many moons ago with an '80 Charger 2.2 I owned. I remember the old days of the V8's where the automatic cranks wouldn't take a 4-speed pilot bearing because they weren't bored for it.

Anyway, advice would be appreciated.

Bill

[turismolover22]

The bracket that holds the shifter should be bolted to the floor.The trans is an a543, v6 only. The cables and shifter will work in your car, not sure if the lengths are compatible, if need be soirce a daytona. They will work with the later 523-68 combos.

[turbodaytona87]

That shifter and those cables can only be used with a 523/568/543 (the 525 and 555 use a different shifter and cables). I used the shifter out of a mid 90s neon; it might have needed some minor grinding on the aluminum plate bolt holes. You can repair the transmission end of the cable by buying some new bushings. I suggest the poly bushings Johnny sells.

Also, since your car wouldn't have had a cable setup, I'm not sure if there is a provision for the cables in the floor. I've never seen a rod shifted car setup.

Clutch pedal is something else to think about. I've never done an auto->manual swap do I don't know if you can just add the clutch pedal or if the pedal bracket needs to be swapped.

[dodgeboy77]

Thanks for the replies! It sounds like there are a lot of 'Maybe's' involved in using this shifter. I know a 568 is a good trans to use and is at the top of my list, but I'd hate to find out that the cables were the wrong length. If someone knows that they'd work for sure, I'd consider scavenging the assembly.

As far as the clutch pedal and cable - ugh - I hate thinking about installing that one! The good thing is that it shouldn't be too hard to find a mid-80's stick-shift K-car to get parts from. I have an '85 factory service manual so I could use that as a reference for the clutch parts.

I spotted this page for a guy's 600 (like mine but mine's white/red top & interior) where he swapped in a 568 and used a Neon SRT4 shifter. I like how clean and factory looking his shifter install is. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3124611/1985-dodge-600/

Bill

[turbodaytona87]

I'm pretty sure the shifter cable lengths are the same, it's the clutch cables that have varying lengths. These cars also don't use a bearing in the flywheel.

[CNH320]

I spotted this page for a guy's 600 (like mine but mine's white/red top & interior) where he swapped in a 568 and used a Neon SRT4 shifter. I like how clean and factory looking his shifter install is. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3124611/1985-dodge-600/

Bill

Hi Bill, that was my car. I sold it a couple years ago but the install was pretty easy for the shifter, needed a bit of fabrication though with the reinforcement structure where the auto shifter sits. The biggest headache is the clutch pedal bracket becaus you have to drop the steering column to replace the whole assembly. I say you should do it the car was much more fun afterwards! If you have any specific questions i can try to answer them but its been a while!

Thanks,

Chris

[dodgeboy77]

Chris,

That is too cool that the 600 I spotted happened to be yours! I was impressed the condition you had that in and the quality of the transmission swap. That shifter looks 100% factory. The mods you did are similar to the direction I'm headed, I just have a way to go. I already have some Shelby Daytona suspension pieces under it with more (and brakes) waiting to be installed. I'll be sure to tap your knowledge if I need to know anything.

Bill

- - - Updated - - -

After digging around on RockAuto for a while, I came to the conclusion that the replacement shift cables from '90-'94 are the same, regardless of body style or transmission type. Am I right on this?

The later cables seem to be about 6" longer than the earlier cables on the '84-'86 cars, which have a bigger variety of cables available. Length differences maybe?

At any rate, it seems like the shifter in the '94 Duster is something I may be able to use in the future, depending on which transmission I end up with.

Did cars from about '87 to '89 use mechanical linkage? RockAuto doesn't show any shift cables for those years. I thought they had cables, though.

On a related topic, is there any problem using an early clutch cable with the clutch on a later 568 transmission? (I found the answer to this on Donavan's Dodge Garage - the answer is yes, there's a problem).

Thanks,
Bill

[CNH320]

After digging around on RockAuto for a while, I came to the conclusion that the replacement shift cables from '90-'94 are the same, regardless of body style or transmission type. Am I right on this?

I recall, and could be wrong that shadow "P"-body cables were shorter than other K-based cars (Daytonas, Spirits, K-cars, etc...) so may want to be careful there depending on your shifter position. I used cables from a G-body daytona.

The later cables seem to be about 6" longer than the earlier cables on the '84-'86 cars, which have a bigger variety of cables available. Length differences maybe?

84-89 cars used the earlier type transmissions (520/555) with the 3-plane shifter and reverse was pull up and go to the upper left (with the exception of the 89 CSX which used a 568). The cables for the earlier trans' are different than the later transmissions (523/568) that use the 2-plane shifter with reverse to the lower right.

At any rate, it seems like the shifter in the '94 Duster is something I may be able to use in the future, depending on which transmission I end up with.

Yes this will work with a 523 or 568 (90+). Its usually cheaper to find a 523 than a 568 plus if you have a stock engine the 523 is plenty capable to handle the load of the stock engine.

I take it that from about '87 to '89 cars were using mechanical linkage? RockAuto doesn't show any shift cables for those years. Which do you guys prefer, cable or mechanical?

Well my memory is failing me again but i think only L-bodies had the mechanical linkages and they were more prone to having slop and sometimes coming loose. I'd stick with cables.


Some other considerations in your swap:
1) transmissions coming from later vehicles 90+ will have different drivers side mounts (larger size). You'll need to swap on your existing driver's side mount.
2) your car is an 85 so if you have the stock engine in the car still it will have a 6-bolt crankshaft, so you'll need a flywheel from an 1985 and earlier manual vehicle. 1986+ went to an 8-bolt crank/flywheel.
3) the input shaft on the transmissions 91+ went to a larger size so make sure you get a proper clutch depending on the year of the trans.
4) the clutch pedal and brake pedal assembly should be pretty much the same from whatever donor car you get and is the worst part of the job (yes i'm mentioning this again! ).

[dodgeboy77]

Thanks, Chris!

I was researching transaxles and was leaning toward a 568 until I realized that A) They are pretty scarce, and B) A lot of parts aren't available, like synchros. Because of that I'm leaning toward a 523 as they were behind most any 4 cyl. from 90-94, are pretty strong, shift well and hopefully synchros and stuff are still available.

As far as my motor, the stock T1 is in the car now. I have an '89 Minivan 2.5 block bored .020 and a set of Wiseco pistons for it. I woudn't do the transmission swap until after the motor swap. I have the A413 from the minivan that I plan to use initially, along with an OBX LSD for it with the appropriate spacer. Now I'm wondering of the OBX will fit a 523. Hmm.

<<4) the clutch pedal and brake pedal assembly should be pretty much the same from whatever donor car you get and is the worst part of the job >> Yeah, laying on my head under a dashboard for hours is really something to look forward to- Not! Will the pedal assembly from any old K-car of about the same year swap in okay?

<<Well my memory is failing me again but i think only L-bodies had the mechanical linkages >> After some more research, I found you are correct. Apparently some older K cars had mechanical linkage, too, but the newer, bigger cars are all cable shifters.

Chris, I see you are from Detroit. I've gone out to the Woodward Dream Cruise for the last five years and am going again in a couple weeks. Will I see that sweet looking CSX cruising Woodward?

Bill

[CNH320]

Chris, I see you are from Detroit. I've gone out to the Woodward Dream Cruise for the last five years and am going again in a couple weeks. Will I see that sweet looking CSX cruising Woodward?
Bill

Only if you come up on Thursday, our local SDAC chapter usually meets on the Thursday night before the Dream Cruise at the Art Van on Woodward near Birmingham. As for the actual Dream Cruise on the Saturday i usually stay away...

[dodgeboy77]

Chris,

I go out there on Thursday but since it's a long drive, I probably won't be there on time to see the SDAC event. Have fun, though! I'm familiar with the area as I usually hang out just north of 13 Mile Rd to watch the cars go by.

Bill

[CNH320]

Well if you do we're usually at Art Van from 5pm till whenever...

[dodgeboy77]

Chris,

We got to Woodward Thursday night but we were to late too get to the SDAC meet. On Friday I took my wife up to Auburn Hills to show her the Chrysler Headquarters. There was a big bunch of late Challengers, Chargers, 300's and Magnums in front of the Chrysler Museum that turned out to be a LX Forum meet. I'm a member (I have an '09 Challenger R/T) but am not on the forum that often and didn't know about the meet. Anyway, we looked at all the cars and realized that they had the museum open for the event. I had been through the museum a couple years ago when it was open to the public but never thought I'd be in it again, since it is only open for special events. So we walked in in like we belonged and gave ourselves a tour. While in there we realized that everyone had orange wrist bands on but us but no one bothered us.

Aside from that, the Dream Cruise was as awesome as ever. My only complaint was the absence of TD cars aside from some SRT4 Neons!

Bill

[CNH320]

Sorry i missed you, sounds like it was a good trip !

[Gearhead24-7]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...h-and-flywheel

I've got everything you need to do your swap, including the pedal and brackets.

[dodgeboy77]

Ah, Latrobe. Land of Rolling Rock beer!

Thanks for the offer Gearhead. I'm not ready to pull the trigger on this idea quite yet.

Bill