1990 Consulier GTP Targa

[Johnny]

Ordered the Fiero rear calipers and pads this morning. They said they would be her tomorrow morning. We shall see if they are correct when they arrive. I am going to have the rotors turned....and check what they came from, Fiero or Daytona.

[rx2mazda]

Cool project!

I'm curious as to why you want such big brakes on such a light car? Did Mosler ever mention the brakes being a weak point on these cars? I know they were raced "as is" by some great drivers on some great tracks with stellar results before being booted. Weren't the bigger brakes available when he built the Series II etc, did they get the bigger brakes?

Just seems like you have bigger fish to fry with this car and I wanna see it running! lol

[Johnny]

A couple magazine articles did say they had less than stellar brakes. Cost was about the same, so I wanted to upgrade.
Did he use better brakes on the series 2...I have no idea. No one has talked about those much.
It runs! Just needs to stop. And to get the cooling system flushed. And all the rubber parts replaced.
I started on the brakes first because it is on the lift and working my way up.

[Johnny]

Rear brakes (1988 Fiero) came in and are correct. Found out the rear rotors are the same as what the fronts were...Dodge Daytona fronts.

- - - Updated - - -

Removed the two rear covers that are under the car. Changed the oil. Took the brake calipers loose and removed the rotors. Had them turned today. Bought new tires couple days ago....205.50.15 for the front and 225.50.15 for the rear (Falken Ziex ZE912). Misc photos of the rear. One of the axle. Rear cover in place and with it removed. A rear suspension shot with brakes removed...etc.

[tryingbe]

Interesting...

[Johnny]

I helped a guy do headers and exhaust on his Fiero, he had a left over 3" Monza tip, he is giving it to me. Might work out taking the super trap off and installing a real muffler and this tip in the center. But maybe changing the yellow to teal. (or black)

[rbryant]

A rear suspension shot with brakes removed...etc.

How does the inner part of the rear tie rod connect to the frame? Is it a spherical bearing or something?

Or does it actually have 4 wheel steering?

EIther way I guess it is an easy way to adjust toe compared to our cars!

-Rich

[francois]

Thanks Johnny for those pictures!

Never seen a transaxle cover clean like that (unless in the dealer lot)
Ours are all crusty...

Yup, the axle too is something.

[Johnny]

How does the inner part of the rear tie rod connect to the frame?

Here is a photo, it is attached to the steel sub-structure.

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Worked on changing the timing belt since its at least 23 years old.
What a pain.. that AC bracket is very hard to get loosened in this car.
Took the oil pump-distributer gear off so I could change the water pump without trying to remove the housing.
The drivers side new rear brakes are all on.

[rbryant]

Here is a photo, it is attached to the steel sub-structure.

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Worked on changing the timing belt since its at least 23 years old.
What a pain.. that AC bracket is very hard to get loosened in this car.
Took the oil pump-distributer gear off so I could change the water pump without trying to remove the housing.
The drivers side new rear brakes are all on.

I guess that makes sense, outer tierod on the inside and outside!

Thanks for the pic to help my curiosity.

-Rich

[Johnny]

Engine mount is pretty bad, as I am sure most of these cars mounts are by now.
Installed one of those PolyBushings.com ones...the stainless steel ones that are
powder coated black, made with polyurethane... Good Stuff!

Have the water pump installed.

[168glhs1986]

Save a couple for me please

[GLHS069]

how are you able to powder coat stainless steel? I've heard it's pretty hard to do.

Engine mount is pretty bad, as I am sure most of these cars mounts are by now.
Installed one of those PolyBushings.com ones...the stainless steel ones that are
powder coated black, made with polyurethane... Good Stuff!

Have the water pump installed.

[Johnny]

I have a place do it for me before the poly is poured. Seems to work.
Why would it matter what metal it is?
i do have it course sand blasted to ruff up the surface first.

[Reaper1]

It looks like he used '89 11" brakes to me (bolt in wheel bearing, integrated caliper)...

Assuming that the original is a "normal" 88/89 kcar knuckle then the geometry should not be negatively affected.....

Plus the only difference between the geometry of the 91+ knuckles is that they push the ball joint downward (a good thing) so I don't see an issue with the geometry. I would prefer the 91+ knuckles because you can easily change between 3 different brake biases.

• 10" with 54mm calipers (normal kcar)
• 10" with 60mm calipers (van with 10" brakes)
• 11" with 60mm calipers (car with big brakes)

All by changing just the caliper bracket and caliper and the rotor without changing the spindle or doing an alignment
Note: It might then also be desirable to change the master cylinder to correct brake pedal travel.

-Rich

I understand that for our cars the altered ball joint geometry in a benefit. However, this car isn't using the same suspension and the geometry is completely different. It very well may be that the same thing holds true for this car as it does for ours, but I wouldn't use that logic here. It is very possible that the altered ball joint geometry messes things up.

I'd at least do some simple measurements and put it out in static form on paper before I did it.

I'm not saying the thing is perfect as is and can't benefit from modifications. What I am saying is that it has a darn good suspension under it that is very capable of making the car handle well and that messing with it before understanding it isn't something *I* would do or suggest.

[Johnny]

I'd at least do some simple measurements and put it out in static form on paper before I did it.

Its already done. We shall see.........

[rbryant]

I understand that for our cars the altered ball joint geometry in a benefit. However, this car isn't using the same suspension and the geometry is completely different. It very well may be that the same thing holds true for this car as it does for ours, but I wouldn't use that logic here. It is very possible that the altered ball joint geometry messes things up.

I'd at least do some simple measurements and put it out in static form on paper before I did it.

I'm not saying the thing is perfect as is and can't benefit from modifications. What I am saying is that it has a darn good suspension under it that is very capable of making the car handle well and that messing with it before understanding it isn't something *I* would do or suggest.

From the understanding perspective it is better to do the research and post instead of posting that you think it is a bad idea with no background. This is a common topic that isn't hard to find information on.

While the double wishbone style front end is different but not that much when talking about the lower ball joint...

The roll center will change for the better by using the newer spindles and nothing else changes considerably. Moreover there are several companies that offer ball joint extension kits (for both mcpherson and double wishbone suspensions) to accomplish exactly what our newer spindles do: push the control arm downward to help suspension geometry.

Pictures found on meaganracing website (there are surely lots of diagrams showing this for double wishbone suspensions):

Stock Height


Lowered with Shorter Lower Ball Joint (or spindle)


Lowered with Taller Lower Ball Joint (or spindle)



The same principals apply to double wishbone as mcpherson syspensions:

Here is a description of a ball joint extender kit that is designed to do the same thing that our newer spindles accomplish.
http://www.meganracing.com/tech/faqs...ct=Suspension:

As a side note: From a basic geometry (and trig) perspective pretty much only the lower control arm angle changes and axle length really isn't much different.

The .75" of lower ball joint angle even if the control arm is only 12" long (I imagine it is longer than that) from the pivot point will only be about 3.5 degree on the control arm. This isn't the angle of the wheel affecting camber, it is just the angle of the control arm. The effective change in length on the control arm would be .023" (yes 23 thou).

-Rich

- - - Updated - - -

Its already done. We shall see.........

From the pictures the spindles you used looked like '89 so they won't have the taller ball joint which improves the roll center.

-Rich

[ForzaV12]

Save a couple for me please

me too

[GLHNSLHT2]

Do the consulier's have the spacers under the pass mount?

[Johnny]

Do the consulier's have the spacers under the pass mount?

No they don't.

I finished the timing belt, and the other two belts. Finished the rear drivers side brakes.
Anyone else have issue with the brake? The drivers side cable seems like it is 2" too short.
Still need to bleed the brakes. Elaine's going to help me with that tomorrow morning.

Connected all the new water hoses. Added water.

By the way, the panels under the car that cover the front suspension and the rear engine area are so light I was amazed. The front one connects with Dzus fasteners. I was missing two. I went to the VW bug dune buggy shop and they had some. Here is the info if any one else needs them....