I know they're inanimate objects, but I think my cars are trolling me

[89FerrariShelby]

Oh boy....the fun never ends....

So, thanks to everyone on this site, I think I narrowed down the issues with the Spirit R/T, looks like worst case I just need to carry Coolant Fluid with me, and either replace the alternator, battery, or both. No biggie.

Now for the fun part. I thought I had the Daytona going good. Seems like I was wrong. The other day driving home, a Honda accord took off from me at a stoplight. At first I was just going to let them go, but once they got about 6-7 cars ahead of me I decided to have some fun and try to reel them back in. I didn't quite make it, but that was because, when the car is matted, the car falls flat on its face at about 4800 rpms right in the middle of pulling. It's almost like it shuts off. Unfortunately I was too busy watching the road to catch what all the gauges did, but it fell on its face in all 3 gears I pulled through (2nd, 3rd, and 4th).

No biggie, figured car hasn't been beaten on in months (if not years), figured its still ok to drive, and i'll work out whatever the issue is at WOT later. So I drove it 120 miles to CT this past weekend. Drove there fine, though the Innovate Wideband I installed flashes E8 after driving for about 15 minutes. From what I can find online, it appears that this happens when the sensor goes bad. No biggie again... its not like the car runs off of it, and i'm not doing WOT pulls, so I can ignore for now.

I got in the car to drive home. Alternator belt squeaks bad at start up, but after it warms up it quiets right down. Driving home, I get on the highway, and as soon as I hit about 67 mph, the car starts sputtering, almost like its going to die right there. Slow down to 65, and while I still felt a bit of a pulsing, it got me home ok. Once I hit the backroads I can hear the belt is back to squeaking real bad (except its silent at Idle) and there's a raspy sound from under the hood.

So obviously I need to fix the alternator/belt set up. My question is, does anyone have any idea what would cause the sputtering? I don't mind when the car doesn't work and I know what's wrong, but I'm at a complete loss here. That part scares me.

If anyone wants I do have the OTC 4000 enhanced, but no idea how to use it, I can try and pull more info with it though if it will help anyone with a diagnosis. In prep for this post I pulled the Check engine codes:

It flashed in this sequence: 1-2-5-1-3-4-6-2-5-5

Best I can tell that means I have codes 25, 34, and 52 (6 was probably a 1 with 5 after it?)

25 Automatic Idle Speed (AIS) motor driver circuit shorted or target idle not reached, vacuum leak found - Maybe my WOT pull blew a hose loose? I didn't see anything but I can check more, just wanted to get this post out there...

34 (1987-1991) speed control shorted or open - Not sure what I can do about this or if it would cause any of the above

52 Oxygen sensor stuck at rich position - Can I fix this or do I need a new o2?

Thanks for the help guys, I hate to bother you all after all the help you've given, but I'm getting real close to just draining the fluids and putting it away for a few years to get some distance. I'll never sell it, far too invested in time and $$ to sell it, but it is really wearing me thin.....

Thanks in advance

[cordes]

I think you're off on the codes. I think it's supposed to be 12, 51, 34, 62, and 55. Either way your O2 looks like it needs some attention. That will certainly cause your car to run like crap.

[89FerrariShelby]

I think you're off on the codes. I think it's supposed to be 12, 51, 34, 62, and 55. Either way your O2 looks like it needs some attention. That will certainly cause your car to run like crap.

Ahhh... 51 looks like its either o2 or MAP... maybe I should just replace both...the distinction doesn't seem to exist for the conditions they set.

Thank you cordes... I guess I thought they'd spit the codes in numerical order, so figured I mis-saw, or it was using 1's to space them out. 12 makes sense as the battery is disconnected all the time... so you're probably right..

[turismolover22]

A map issue can cause it to run poorly. If it is sending the wrong voltages for the pressure it can make the car run pig rich, causing it to run like a turd

[89FerrariShelby]

So....these aren't cheap... anyone have any opinions on if I should do the o2 first and then the MAP if it doesn't fix it, or MAP 1st and then o2 if its not fixed... I suppose I could do them in a single shot...but with the wedding and all =P

According to the description from AllPar I would say it really could be either (or both)

51 Oxygen sensor stuck at lean position (Bob Lincoln wrote: may be tripped by a bad MAP sensor system causing a rich condition, and the O2 sensor trying to compensate. The O2 sensor may still be good. The MAP assembly consists of two pieces, the valve and the vacuum transducer (round plastic unit with cylinder on top and both electrical and vacuum connections) - If you get hot rough idle and stalling, especially on deceleration, accompanied by flooded engine and difficulty restarting, that can be a bad MAP sensor causing the O2 sensor to try to compensate. If you get poor cold driveability, stumbling and bucking, and acceptable warm driving with poor gas mileage (a drop of 10 mpg or more), that is usually the O2 sensor. [Webmaster note: MAP sensors seem to die regularly.]

For the record I have a 3 bar MAP...

[cordes]

Does your wideband have a simulated narrow band output? That would be a two for one deal and save some cash if it does have that.

You should be able to test the map in the car by comparing the output voltage with the key in the run position to the voltage table vs. pressure. Use a little hand actuated vacuum pump to get some vac on it and if you have access to a compressor you could test it in "boost" too.

- - - Updated - - -

ETA: If you really want to a lot of the 2 bar map sensors can be converted to a 3 bar sensor for about $15.

[2.216VTurbo]

A bad ground will cause errant/out of order codes in my experience...

[89FerrariShelby]

Are they supposed to come in numerical order?

I was also thinking, does anyone know if the scanner would be able to find out which one it is definitively? I'm guessing at the very least the scanner could show me which codes for sure?

Thanks cordes, I'll have to look up the table and do some research on where the MAP even is, but I could probably give that a try. I guess first i'll see if i cant figure out how to use the scanner and confirm the codes...then go from there.

[cordes]

There's all sorts of stuff you can do with the scanner, but I don't own one and it's been a long time since I've used one so I don't recall if it can do any tests with the O2 sensor.

The MAP should be on your passenger strut tower. It's the little black deal near the solenoids which has the vac line and a 3 prong connector going to it.

[89FerrariShelby]

Well...I have no clue how to use that scanner. I played around a bunch, and at the very least was able to confirm the codes you put up were correct cordes. Near as I can tell i'm just going to have to replace both. Oh well....

[89FerrariShelby]

As another question, what is the speed control? When i was looking through the catalog to buy the 2 sensors I saw they had that for sale as well. What is that even for?

[cordes]

Cruise control.

[ShadowFromHell]

If your getting a map code in my experience 99% of the time its a vac leak not a sensor, and that will make the car a dog. What year is the daytona? I fought a map code on my 89 for a week until I plugged the factory boost gauge line. It had dry rotted in the dash and was leaking. Does the car still have the stock vacuum harness?

[cordes]

If your getting a map code in my experience 99% of the time its a vac leak not a sensor, and that will make the car a dog. What year is the daytona? I fought a map code on my 89 for a week until I plugged the factory boost gauge line. It had dry rotted in the dash and was leaking. Does the car still have the stock vacuum harness?

I had a similar situation. It ended up being a bad baro read solenoid that would half way fail only on occasion.

[pauly_no_van]

I had a similar situation. It ended up being a bad baro read solenoid that would half way fail only on occasion.

Happened to me too....

[89FerrariShelby]

The car is an 89 Dodge Daytona Shelby. I've blown the vac lines off a couple of times, the ride was a lot harsher than this has been. I already ordered the new o2 and MAP, hopefully one or both of them fixes it. The baro read could be another possibility, but I seem to remember working with someone on that before...possibly even bypassing it? I'm digging up memories from 5+ years ago though, so I could be completely mis-speaking.

I have a vac block, pictured below. Checked all the Vac lines and they're all hooked up and look ok to me...

[89FerrariShelby]

Not sure if this is bad enough to have been the problem....think I should keep it as a spare?



MAP sensor tomorrow and then crossing my fingers.....

[cordes]

If the car doesn't throw an O2 code with the new sensor I would pitch it.

[89FerrariShelby]

Any idea how long it takes for codes to go off the computer? I could probably figure out how to clear them with the scanner, but not sure how long it takes to "go away" on its own.

[Turbo Joe]

you would have to leave the batt disconnected for a long time, easier and faster to just erase them with a scanner capable of clearing codes..