http://turbododge.4t.com/Turbo.html
Anybody know who this guy is? His name is Clark and according to this page the stock GN turbine is a bolt in for the stock dodge turbine housing.
http://turbododge.4t.com/Turbo.html
Anybody know who this guy is? His name is Clark and according to this page the stock GN turbine is a bolt in for the stock dodge turbine housing.
That guy is on here! If Clark says it'll fit I wouldn't doubt him.
I have personally found this to be not true. The stock GN turbine wheel is just a hair larger and will not fit.
Is the gn turbo the same thru all years? A guy at my job has a 85 gn turbo on his shelf he's not using..
OK, I actually have a complete GN turbo it was in the top of my shop so I dug it out. You can physically bolt the turbine onto the GN turbo and it does fit...however there is very little clearance..I can easily touch the housing with the turbine with the play that's in the turbo. Also, the stock dodge turbine wheel is very tall compared to the GN wheel and the transition area from inducer to exducer isn't the same. so looking at the GN wheel in the stock housing the inducer portion of the wheel poorly matches the dodge housing. If you were looking to do it on the cheap you could machine about .015" of the exducer bore of the dodge housing and it would probably work but not sure how well.
Yeah, I noticed it was quite a different design as well. In my case I had bought a GN turbo from eBay that was supposedly from an '87 model. I couldn't even get the stock turbo Dodge turbine housing to fit over it as the inducer was just a tiny bit too big to allow for it. I tried on both a TII and TIII housing and couldn't get it to work. Finally I sent the unit to TurbosUnleashed to have rebuilt. I also sent a stock TIII turbine housing in the hopes that it could be machined to allow for the GN turbine wheel. Because of the different design and cost/benefit, Chris finally talked me out of it and I stayed with the stock turbo Dodge turbine wheel and called it a day. I did keep the GN compressor wheel/housing, so it will make a nice upgrade for one of my TIII engines someday.Originally Posted by wallace
The Ed Peters Super 70 turbo uses the GN compressor wheel.
The compressor housing is a .42 A/R and is heavily ported.
Wayne H.
'91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
'05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
'89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
'89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini
I ran an 87 GN turbocharger on my 89 Daytona Shelby back in 2001 with a Chrysler .48 turbine housing. I measured both the GN and chrysler housings the best I could and internally all of the machined surface dimensions were the same. I didn't have any trouble with the wheel contacting the housing. I do agree that the wheels don't look very similar, that's why I measured the housings as a sanity check. Keep in mind there is about a 3 mm profile tolerance on as-cast surfaces, so there is a chance some housings will work while others will not.
Even back in 2001 I had people say it wouldn't work. Maybe there were different turbine wheel variants? I ran this setup on my daily driver and eventually melted a piston due to a lean condition on 1 cylinder (bad +40% injector). The engine flowed more air with this turbo at the same boost level compared to the stock T2 turbo (hence why I found the fuel system deficiency) with the GN turbo.
Nowdays I would probably just spend the $800 and buy a hybrid 50 trim turbo and be done with it. Back then it was fun to experiment with different combinations of parts. I think I have a picture of 7 or 8 turbos sitting around that I ran on my car at one time or another back in college.
If you guys still doubt me I can dig through my boxes of turbochargers and dig up the old parts if I still have them. I pulled the GN turbo out of the chrysler housing and then installed it in a .63 housing when the turbo went on my Shelby Charger. There was no turbine wheel damage.
Clark, if you have the time some day I would actually appreciate a write up of all the turbos you've run and what your thoughts were about them. You've run some pretty unconventional turbos from what I can recollect.
[IMG][/IMG]
Above is a sample of the turbochargers I ran on my old 87 CSX. From left to right: 60 trim T04E in native housing, 50 trim TO4E in stock T2 housing, 87 GN turbocharger, a S60 turbocharger, and a stock T2 turbocharger. I ended up settling with a "Super 50" T04E Turbonetics turbo that was still on the car when I sold it.
I have nothing to prove on this forum and you are free to believe what you wish.
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The 60 Trim TO4E surged above 20 psi as expected (matches Frank's turbo calculator very well). The 50 Trim in the stock housing was a disappointment and had more lag than the larger Super 50 Trim in the TO4E housing that I ended up going with. This may have been partially due to the improved turbine design of the newer Turbonetics turbos. The GN turbo was not laggy compared to the stock turbo and it seemed to make as much power at 17 psi as the stock turbo did at 25 psi (based on A/F ratio's and seat-of-the-pants dyno). I never had a good feel for the S60 turbo because the wastegate hole was ported and my swingvalve's poppet valve wasn't quite large enough to seal the hole. This caused the turbo to spool slower than it should have.
For a daily driver I'd recommend the GN compressor housing with a modern Turbonetics turbine wheel. I'm not sure if this is something that can be purchased, but it would be a good solid turbo that would reliably support 300 hp or so.
For max power the Super 50 TO4E turbo with the Stage 3 turbine was pretty solid. I ran over 30 psi on this turbo on E85 and generated more torque than the tires could handle in 4th gear and more torque than the clutch could handle in 5th gear. The car was a torque monster but didn't have great response in the lower gears below 3,000 rpm.
For what it's worth, my hybrid turbo with stage II wheel and TO4E cover spooled faster than the big wheel in the TII housing and it has the old style wheel.
I didn't mean to sound like I was doubting or calling anybody a liar at all. I was just relating my own personal experience with the '87 GN turbo. When I tried to fit it on a stock TII and stock TIII turbine housing, the outside edge of the turbine impeller contacted the housing. I felt that if I had tried harder to get it to fit I would have damaged the wheel and/or ended up with a locked-up turbo.
Clark, thanks for sharing your information. Looking at the GN wheel in a stock housing I wouldn't believe it would work all that well since the transition from the exducer to the inducer doesn't match the housing all that well. You can tell by looking at the wheel it should be much more efficient than the stock wheel. Did you ever check that exhaust wheel after you ran it to see if it looked like it had touched the housing?
I will see if I still have the wheel around here somewhere. Let me take a look in the garage and see if I can grab a picture.
-It looks like I've discarded the GN turbine wheel and air cooled bearing housing when I moved to the new house. I still have a 50 trim TO4E compressor and a S60 compressor, but I've thrown away quite a few parts over the years in order to clean things up a bit.
In modern times I'd recommend just buying a Turbonetics turbo. Turbonetics has released a new series of turbine wheels that are a nice upgrade from the stock units and you don't need to shell out the cash for a newer GT series turbo. The new turbos have a 360 degree thrust bearing and have "big shaft" journal bearings. If you have the money, I recommend just buying one turbo and being done with it.
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I need to post more... Wallace, you have me beat by 4 posts! I guess that's what I get for being dormant for almost a decade.
Last edited by jckrieger; 07-09-2013 at 08:27 PM.
Put the Viper deeper in the garage!
I have a couple of these GN aka 'Super 70' turbos here that I could take some measurements of if anybody really wants.
The first one is a frankenturbo that was installed on my white Spirit R/T when I bought it in Iowa back in '08. As far as I can tell, it uses the GN turbine and compressor wheels, TIII center section (water cooled), a 'Nissan' compressor housing, and a TIII turbine housing. Both housings were modified to accept the larger wheels. I have since had it rebuilt by TU. it was it very bad shape when I got it and required a new compressor wheel.
The second turbo is the '87 Buick GN turbo I got on eBay. I sent it to TurbosUnleashed to have rebuilt. I had them rebuild it with a 'standard' .63 A/R turbine housing, a normal 'stage I' stock turbine wheel, and a water-cooled center section.
I've been pricing out how much to upgrade my .60/.63 that's on the car now and no matter how I figure it the bill is almost $550 if I want to put a better turbine wheel in it. I'm tempted to run the GN turbo as is and fabricate a mount for the 3 bolt flange I've got some 1.25" weld els laying around...
I have a copy of the stock flow map for the intercooled GN turbo.
I run a GN turbo on my car now, although its running a standard T3 housing (not that weird 3-bolt flange). It spools quite well, but I do have a 3" exhaust and ported head.
What t3 housing are you using?
Not exactly sure (came with the turbo - from a friend), from what I remember it was machined to fit the exhaust wheel (some sort of .48 housing) but it was the standard T3 flange, and a ford pattern outlet instead of the 3-bolt outlet
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