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Thread: Proof torque for 11mm head bolts?

  1. #61
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff 135sohc's Avatar
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    Re: Proof torque for 11mm head bolts?

    Quote Originally Posted by 83scamp View Post
    I'm probably going to regret posting this link, but here is my source for genuine OEM Mopar head bolts... I've bought two sets from this guy.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/220083263694...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    Now watch, next time I need a set, he won't have them....


    Oh, and I just used the first set in my Daytona, and they hit the 90lb-ft at about 1/8 turn on the 1/4 turn final stretch...
    Do those have a '11' stamped on the head ?
    1994 Shadow Sedan. 2.2 N/A, A568 400,000 miles. "the science experiment"
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  2. #62
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Proof torque for 11mm head bolts?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    I find it curious that the choice of lubricant used hasn't been brought into this discussion. I think it's the package insert in with the ARP's that lists the varying values when using a moly based lube compared to engine oil. I assume everyone uses just clean oil?

    And just because you're using ARP's doesn't make the torqueing immune to fastener failure Clearly this one didn't achieve the specified value
    AJ, that stud isn't stamped/laser etched with ARP2000, is it?
    Wayne H.

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  3. #63
    boostaholic Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Proof torque for 11mm head bolts?

    Quote Originally Posted by 135sohc View Post
    Do those have a '11' stamped on the head ?

    I don't remember. I'll have to look at the second set. They did come in sealed Mopar bags with the correct part number on them.

  4. #64
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Proof torque for 11mm head bolts?

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    AJ, that stud isn't stamped/laser etched with ARP2000, is it?
    It just says ARP on the one side(end of stud) then 180 degrees away it say ARP again. Nut says ARP on one flat then a teeny tiny logo my eyes cant read 180 degrees from that.

    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
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  5. #65
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Proof torque for 11mm head bolts?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    It just says ARP on the one side(end of stud) then 180 degrees away it say ARP again. Nut says ARP on one flat then a teeny tiny logo my eyes cant read 180 degrees from that.
    Those look like the older ARP studs which had a reduced diameter shank. See the diameter at the threads is larger than the shank? Like a Q-tip almost. This is the older studs they had for our application that some folks had issues with stretching and lifting heads under big boost. Warren Hall alerted me to it some time ago meow when i thought i had an issue with my headstud torque.
    I was told by the ARP tech rep that they only have the ARP2000 spec studs for our application now (they stopped making this type for our engines). The studs have ARP2000 on the ends. (I can did out a pic if you'd like.)
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
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  6. #66
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Proof torque for 11mm head bolts?

    Info I didn't know, thanks They were however bought this year from a vendor on this list we all know.

    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
    90 Masi 16V White/Ginger/Black
    89 TC Masi 16V Red/Ginger/Black
    86 GLHS #110 RoadRace Built 89 CSX-VNT Recaro Car
    89 Turbo Mini 'Woody' 85 GLHT 'RedBox'
    2014 Explorer DD'r 3.5Twin Turbo Ecoboost AWD and 500HP
    My profile page has over 20,000 views, I'm somebody LOL

  7. #67
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    Re: Proof torque for 11mm head bolts?

    [QUOTE=135sohc; ALSO something to be aware of... in the past the felpro part number for the V6 head bolts, they were tumble polished and came with the captive washer, just like the headbolts from chrysler as I think they were supplied to federal/felpro by whomever the vendor to chrysler is/was. Maybe 6 months ago when I looked them up again the felpro headbolts for the V6 changed and were the same ones felpro has always sold for the 2.2, the black oxide finish and washers are not included. [/QUOTE]


    The FelPro 3.8L bolts I received today have the captured washer/different finish, and are NOT stamped with an 11 on the top of the head like the play doh bolts.
    One way I see around the "8 to a package" dilemma is to order 5 pacakages...enough for four 2.2/2.5 engines.

    Also, the Victor Reinz bolts came in a Victor Reinz box that also said Mahle on it. Made in Taiwan...

    CG

  8. #68

    Re: Proof torque for 11mm head bolts?

    What model year 3.8 did you order?

  9. #69
    boostaholic Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Proof torque for 11mm head bolts?

    Quote Originally Posted by 135sohc View Post
    Do those have a '11' stamped on the head ?
    I had a chance to look yesterday, and they do have the "11" stamped in the head.

  10. #70
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff 135sohc's Avatar
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    Re: Proof torque for 11mm head bolts?

    Quote Originally Posted by c2xejk View Post
    What model year 3.8 did you order?
    quick glance at rockauto shows different options depending upon what year you choose. Look them up for a 1995 and it shows the cheapy bolts but it comes with 16 of them. Look them up for a 2010 and to my surprise it shows the nicer OEM style bolts but it only comes with 8 of them.

    Felpro ES72163 is the 'oem' style and it shows 97 and later model year.

    Felpro ES72849 shows for 96 and older.
    1994 Shadow Sedan. 2.2 N/A, A568 400,000 miles. "the science experiment"
    1987 Shelby CSX #418. Long term rebuild and restore ?

  11. #71
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Proof torque for 11mm head bolts?

    FWIW I have FelPro head bolts in my 2.5, reused at least once. No problem at 22psi, torqued with a (at least) 10-year-old parts store torque wrench that's never been recalibrated.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  12. #72
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    Re: Proof torque for 11mm head bolts?

    Howdy,

    Update...

    Put a 2.2 together with the polished, captured washer 3.8 Felpro bolts I purchased a few months ago. Had the same problem as the black oxide. I could easily turn at least half of them the 1/4 turn (to finish) without hitting 80 ft/lb on that finish turn. The "good" bolts barely made 90. Replaced all that didn't come close to 90...
    Used considerably more than 10 to clamp that head down.
    Decided I will run the engine with them anyway and see if they hold.
    But...
    I would not consider them a viable replacement. I bought several sets, and even tho I am loathe to waste money, I do not think I will use them in another engine. Not even a stock engine.

    On a much brighter note, I finally got back in the garage to assemble a 2.5 that was waiting for me.

    I used the Mahle/Victor Reinz head bolts that I had purchased earlier and I am pleased to share that they ALL torqued to 95-100 on the final 1/4.
    May I also add that they felt like head bolts as I tightened them...not modeling clay.
    I will be purchasing the Mahle's in the future.

    Just passing on what I have experienced. Your mileage may vary...

    CG

  13. #73
    turbo addict
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    Re: Proof torque for 11mm head bolts?

    I put in a head last Sunday and one of the ARP stud didn't even reach 80. We put in a MP headbolt and my friend called ARP last Monday, and ARP sent a replacement stud.

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