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Thread: The Neon thread!

  1. #41
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff contraption22's Avatar
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    There is very little complexity to a Neon exhaust system. A trusted exhaust shop should be able to make one for not much money.
    Mike Marra
    1986 Plymouth Horizon GLMF "The Contraption" < entertaining sponsorship offers
    Project Log:
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?69708-The-Contraption-2013-14&highlight=

  2. #42
    Bad Mother Flecker Turbo Mopar Staff fleckster's Avatar
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    I don't know of any around here that do true mandrel bends. Then there's the cat if I decide to ditch it.

    John M. Fleck

    '83 Dodge Rampage 2.2 w/ 2.5L Turbo 14.79@94
    '87 Shelby Lancer #213 14.99@94
    '89 Chrysler LeBaron GT Turbo 'vert 15.88@92
    '92 Dodge Spirit R/T 13.50@104 ; 13.34@102 on slicks
    '98 Dodge Neon R/T 15.66@89
    '03 Dodge SRT-4 13.91@98

  3. #43
    Bad Mother Flecker Turbo Mopar Staff fleckster's Avatar
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    Does anybody know which Jeeps have the 60mm Throttle Body that is rumored to the bolt on for the Neon? I'm guessing from the 4.0L in-line 6 but what year(s)?

    John M. Fleck

    '83 Dodge Rampage 2.2 w/ 2.5L Turbo 14.79@94
    '87 Shelby Lancer #213 14.99@94
    '89 Chrysler LeBaron GT Turbo 'vert 15.88@92
    '92 Dodge Spirit R/T 13.50@104 ; 13.34@102 on slicks
    '98 Dodge Neon R/T 15.66@89
    '03 Dodge SRT-4 13.91@98

  4. #44
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by fleckster View Post
    Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead but,

    I'm dying for this winter weather to end and get back to working on my car projects and right now I'm itching to work on my Neon!
    Some of you may remember my Neon if you were at SDAC-23:
    Attachment 49062
    and if you weren't, here's another shot of it:
    Attachment 49064

    It has finally after all this time, developed the "2.0L Headgasket Leak" and is losing oil down the back of the block. As was suggested, since I have to have the head off anyway to replace the gasket for the MLS one, I might as well upgrade the head while I'm at it. So I currently have on the bench:
    Attachment 49063
    Attachment 49065

    This is a ported and milled .030" head I had redone with new valves and everything else by Steve Menegon. I'm hoping for some nice extra power here to go with the current Iceman, Auto throttle body, AFx UDP, and Mopar ECM. I also have a set of Crane 12 Cams to be installed with the head.

    All this cold weather has given me plenty of daydreaming time and with the Indy Cylinder Head swap meet this weekend, I have decided to check into a deal on a new (or used) Indy intake manifold and a TTi Mid-length header. This will require me to modify the exhaust system since it is 2.5" outlet and will require cutting the downpipe. From what I've seen and heard, the Thermal R&D Muffler looks like the way to go. It has the look that still resembles the stock exhaust tips a bit with there being dual tips and they look sharp. The sound seems quiet (very important) but throaty and hopefully not to droaning on the highway at speed. The problem is that Modern Performance website shows that it might be out of stock and possibly discontinued (?) and I would still have to get the rest of the exhaust system. It looks like pretty much everyone has quit making cat back systems for 1st Gen Neons. You think it might be possible to get a mandral tube system minus the muffler from either TTi or Cindy at FWD Performance without their Dynomax mufflers? I realize that it would probably take some minor trimming to fit to the Thermal muffler.

    After I figure this stuff out, the future plans would be:
    - A 60mm (Jeep?) throttle body onto the matched Indy intake
    - a custom programmed ECU to better match these parts
    - maybe larger Cams than the Crane 12s?

    I would absolutely love to get around 200hp at the wheels eventually and have my N/A Neon running in the 14s.

    What do you guys think?
    I used to drag race a 99 SOHC and lost a half second when I put on the Indy Cylinder Head intake....killed the bottom end. Car picked it back up with an aftermarket 60mm TB.....but I had a bone stock head and cam.
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]47 Time NHRA/IHRA drag race champ-----84 Plymouth Horizon/1 of 84 HO equipped from the factory/1910 lbs, 2.5 with carb, nearly 315,000 miles-----04 SRT4/S2 with S3 turbo/12.17 @ 119/DOTs/93 Octane/SOLD-----2003 PT Cruiser GT, won a True Street class at the 2017 National Muscle Car Association World Street Finals-----2010 Toyota Prius/my delivery truck, 77.9 mpg best and NOT A PLUG IN, nearly 230,000 miles and way over 5600 miles per month! [/COLOR][/SIZE]

  5. #45
    Bad Mother Flecker Turbo Mopar Staff fleckster's Avatar
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    DOHC is quite a bit different than the SOHC on the intake. This is were the DOHC design was compromised badly when they decided to offer it with the automatic and they changed it from the original design and killed quite a bit of performance. I had heard nothing but good things about the Indy DOHC version. I think with the Menegon head, I should be good with it.

    John M. Fleck

    '83 Dodge Rampage 2.2 w/ 2.5L Turbo 14.79@94
    '87 Shelby Lancer #213 14.99@94
    '89 Chrysler LeBaron GT Turbo 'vert 15.88@92
    '92 Dodge Spirit R/T 13.50@104 ; 13.34@102 on slicks
    '98 Dodge Neon R/T 15.66@89
    '03 Dodge SRT-4 13.91@98

  6. #46
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    When not drag racing the Matchbox I race a 95 Neon SOHC 4 door for points in the United Manual Transmission Racers series. Last year it was in the 16.1 range at nearly 90 with only the following changes from stock: Gutted cat, better flowing bullet style muffler, TB from the automatic car, solid mount where the bobble strut used to be, and removal of the power steering. I ended up 2nd in points and I am the only guy that drives to every event and drives it home...except once! Everyone but me tows...some run as quick as 7.7s at over 170 mph. In 2010 I borrowed this car from my mechanic when the SRT4 was broken...1st time out I was runner-up...then, at the last race of the year...WON the Stick Shift Nationals! It is much more consistent than the SRT4...easier to launch and shift. I bought it right at the start of the 2011 season. The best part of owning this...55 mph = 43 mpg, 65 = 34, and 70 = 30. The car had about 156,000 miles when I bought it and had the water pump, oil pump, head gasket, and timing best replaced. At 186,000 miles the timing belt tensioner pulley bearing failed and ripped up the belt...all 8 exhaust valves tagged the pistons (very minor gouges in them) but had to replace 4 valves and hand lapped all the others. Just freshening up the valve train picked it up about a half second...removal of the power steering another .7! Here are some links to what I race against:
    http://hyperperformance.smugmug.com/...9366&k=kzh66tT
    http://hyperperformance.smugmug.com/...0259&k=MNf7v62
    http://hyperperformance.smugmug.com/...6832&k=MLbDCG2
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]47 Time NHRA/IHRA drag race champ-----84 Plymouth Horizon/1 of 84 HO equipped from the factory/1910 lbs, 2.5 with carb, nearly 315,000 miles-----04 SRT4/S2 with S3 turbo/12.17 @ 119/DOTs/93 Octane/SOLD-----2003 PT Cruiser GT, won a True Street class at the 2017 National Muscle Car Association World Street Finals-----2010 Toyota Prius/my delivery truck, 77.9 mpg best and NOT A PLUG IN, nearly 230,000 miles and way over 5600 miles per month! [/COLOR][/SIZE]

  7. #47
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff contraption22's Avatar
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    I remember that being a common story with the INDY intakes, even with the DOHC. I do remember people having good luck with them in boosted applications. Other than that, little, no, or negative gain was to be had.
    Mike Marra
    1986 Plymouth Horizon GLMF "The Contraption" < entertaining sponsorship offers
    Project Log:
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?69708-The-Contraption-2013-14&highlight=

  8. #48
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    A decal that was being sold as part of a charity fund raiser!

    [SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]47 Time NHRA/IHRA drag race champ-----84 Plymouth Horizon/1 of 84 HO equipped from the factory/1910 lbs, 2.5 with carb, nearly 315,000 miles-----04 SRT4/S2 with S3 turbo/12.17 @ 119/DOTs/93 Octane/SOLD-----2003 PT Cruiser GT, won a True Street class at the 2017 National Muscle Car Association World Street Finals-----2010 Toyota Prius/my delivery truck, 77.9 mpg best and NOT A PLUG IN, nearly 230,000 miles and way over 5600 miles per month! [/COLOR][/SIZE]

  9. #49
    Bad Mother Flecker Turbo Mopar Staff fleckster's Avatar
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    So you aren't a fan of the Indy DOHC intake either, Mike? What are most DOHC Neon guys running then? Ported stockers with the 90° smoothed out? Custom upper?

    John M. Fleck

    '83 Dodge Rampage 2.2 w/ 2.5L Turbo 14.79@94
    '87 Shelby Lancer #213 14.99@94
    '89 Chrysler LeBaron GT Turbo 'vert 15.88@92
    '92 Dodge Spirit R/T 13.50@104 ; 13.34@102 on slicks
    '98 Dodge Neon R/T 15.66@89
    '03 Dodge SRT-4 13.91@98

  10. #50
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff contraption22's Avatar
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by ATaylorRacing View Post
    A decal that was being sold as part of a charity fund raiser!

    Why is there an anti-Neon Charity?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by fleckster View Post
    So you aren't a fan of the Indy DOHC intake either, Mike? What are most DOHC Neon guys running then? Ported stockers with the 90° smoothed out? Custom upper?
    I wouldn't say I am not a fan. I don't really have any personal experience with it. Just what I remember hearing about it. I think Cliff and Flee Sebring had trouble getting any improvement out of it.
    Mike Marra
    1986 Plymouth Horizon GLMF "The Contraption" < entertaining sponsorship offers
    Project Log:
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?69708-The-Contraption-2013-14&highlight=

  11. #51
    Bad Mother Flecker Turbo Mopar Staff fleckster's Avatar
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by contraption22 View Post
    Why is there an anti-Neon Charity?
    I don't think it was as much for the Neon as it was for the Neon's driver skill, right, Angelo?

    John M. Fleck

    '83 Dodge Rampage 2.2 w/ 2.5L Turbo 14.79@94
    '87 Shelby Lancer #213 14.99@94
    '89 Chrysler LeBaron GT Turbo 'vert 15.88@92
    '92 Dodge Spirit R/T 13.50@104 ; 13.34@102 on slicks
    '98 Dodge Neon R/T 15.66@89
    '03 Dodge SRT-4 13.91@98

  12. #52
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by fleckster View Post
    I don't think it was as much for the Neon as it was for the Neon's driver skill, right, Angelo?
    So here's the news on that decal. I race in the UMTR southern series. Our slowest et allowed WAS the standard NHRA 19.99 minimum. In 2010 I had some breakage in my 12.17 second SRT4 so I brought out the only stick car I had at the time...a lowly 3 banger Geo Metro that ran 19.90-19.96 and I made money (only pay the top 4 racers) in 2 of the 3 entered...in fact, the first guy I beat was dialed 7.70! So for 2011 they changed the UMTR rule to 18.99. I didn't mind since I sold the car and bought the Cheap Skate. In 2011 and 2012 a guy would drive all the way down from Cleveland to run against us with his 14 second first gen non-turbo Neon. That guy was tougher than me at that time (still getting mine consistent) and thank goodness he only came down a few times. In the middle of 2012 he lost first gear so he started just redlining it at the launch in second gear and dialed the 18.99 minimum...winning two races! They then changed the cut off to 17.99...so the decal is a tribute to both of us.

    The Geo in action
    http://hyperperformance.smugmug.com/...906049&k=nGdoF
    If I remember correctly...the Vette beat by a Geo
    http://hyperperformance.smugmug.com/...8253&k=vTzSbS8
    Half our races are in Ohio at Edgewater and two at National Trail and one at Kil Kare...the other half are in KY! Four of these evening races are 4 hours from my house!
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]47 Time NHRA/IHRA drag race champ-----84 Plymouth Horizon/1 of 84 HO equipped from the factory/1910 lbs, 2.5 with carb, nearly 315,000 miles-----04 SRT4/S2 with S3 turbo/12.17 @ 119/DOTs/93 Octane/SOLD-----2003 PT Cruiser GT, won a True Street class at the 2017 National Muscle Car Association World Street Finals-----2010 Toyota Prius/my delivery truck, 77.9 mpg best and NOT A PLUG IN, nearly 230,000 miles and way over 5600 miles per month! [/COLOR][/SIZE]

  13. #53
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    From what I recall, the Indy intake is tuned for high rpms so you lose low end torque. It works well with boost because boost masks its low rpm inefficiency.

  14. #54
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by fleckster View Post
    Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead but,

    I'm dying for this winter weather to end and get back to working on my car projects and right now I'm itching to work on my Neon!
    Some of you may remember my Neon if you were at SDAC-23:
    Attachment 49062
    and if you weren't, here's another shot of it:
    Attachment 49064

    It has finally after all this time, developed the "2.0L Headgasket Leak" and is losing oil down the back of the block. As was suggested, since I have to have the head off anyway to replace the gasket for the MLS one, I might as well upgrade the head while I'm at it. So I currently have on the bench:
    Attachment 49063
    Attachment 49065

    This is a ported and milled .030" head I had redone with new valves and everything else by Steve Menegon. I'm hoping for some nice extra power here to go with the current Iceman, Auto throttle body, AFx UDP, and Mopar ECM. I also have a set of Crane 12 Cams to be installed with the head.

    All this cold weather has given me plenty of daydreaming time and with the Indy Cylinder Head swap meet this weekend, I have decided to check into a deal on a new (or used) Indy intake manifold and a TTi Mid-length header. This will require me to modify the exhaust system since it is 2.5" outlet and will require cutting the downpipe. From what I've seen and heard, the Thermal R&D Muffler looks like the way to go. It has the look that still resembles the stock exhaust tips a bit with there being dual tips and they look sharp. The sound seems quiet (very important) but throaty and hopefully not to droaning on the highway at speed. The problem is that Modern Performance website shows that it might be out of stock and possibly discontinued (?) and I would still have to get the rest of the exhaust system. It looks like pretty much everyone has quit making cat back systems for 1st Gen Neons. You think it might be possible to get a mandral tube system minus the muffler from either TTi or Cindy at FWD Performance without their Dynomax mufflers? I realize that it would probably take some minor trimming to fit to the Thermal muffler.

    After I figure this stuff out, the future plans would be:
    - A 60mm (Jeep?) throttle body onto the matched Indy intake
    - a custom programmed ECU to better match these parts
    - maybe larger Cams than the Crane 12s?

    I would absolutely love to get around 200hp at the wheels eventually and have my N/A Neon running in the 14s.

    What do you guys think?
    To get in the 14's you dont really have to do that much work.My first R/T(loaded) went 14.7's on D/R's with AFX ECU(Race Version),Iceman,paceshitter header,AFX UDP,thermal muffler,rest of exhaust stock.It was deadly consistent and reliable.

    My 97 ACR went 13.69@98 with a DCR built motor before it chucked a rod(not DCR's fault,long story) It was built 12.5-1 Je's stock rods(why it chucked one)AFX ECU,Iceman air intake,Bored stock Tb,DCR ported Intake,Crane 16's,stock injectors,walbro pump,DCR ported head afx udp,AFX long tube header and a few other tidbits. After it chucked the rod Iused a junkyard 2.0 DOHC of unknown origin.Used the Ported intake and TB,a paceshitter header,Iceman,and AFX ECU.Had also installed a set of coil overs and used same slicks from the DCR setup.Best it went was 14.23@91 Its not rocket science to make one run 14's.Do not use the Indy Intake,Its a big waste of money.Get a AFX Race ECU,itll go great with the other mods you have planned.

  15. #55
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    This thread is very interesting to me. I just got my $100 05 Neon up and running and now it's time to finish off the 97. I think the 97 could see some track time this year but it won't be impressive at all.

  16. #56
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    This thread is very interesting to me. I just got my $100 05 Neon up and running and now it's time to finish off the 97. I think the 97 could see some track time this year but it won't be impressive at all.
    Ive been wanting to put another one together for quite sometime.The last one I had a 98 Plymouth Style SOHC Auto i absolutely hated.If i could find another ACR or R/T cheap ill be all over it.We had a 99 in at work this week.It was green SOHC auto coupe with a tan interior.It only had 27k on it.

  17. #57
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Craig View Post
    Ive been wanting to put another one together for quite sometime.The last one I had a 98 Plymouth Style SOHC Auto i absolutely hated.If i could find another ACR or R/T cheap ill be all over it.We had a 99 in at work this week.It was green SOHC auto coupe with a tan interior.It only had 27k on it.
    Wow, that is some seriously low mileage for a Neon.

  18. #58
    Bad Mother Flecker Turbo Mopar Staff fleckster's Avatar
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    Mine currently has 57000 miles. Almost twice as much as that one but still pretty low for a 1998.

    So now after a bit more research, I'm thinking I will probably hold off on getting an Indy intake. Apparently the consensus is that the Indy isn't worth the money and doesn't increase power with bolt-ons. Now with my ported and milled head, it might be a good upgrade. I think I'll hold off until I can research more and find out the best move.

    John M. Fleck

    '83 Dodge Rampage 2.2 w/ 2.5L Turbo 14.79@94
    '87 Shelby Lancer #213 14.99@94
    '89 Chrysler LeBaron GT Turbo 'vert 15.88@92
    '92 Dodge Spirit R/T 13.50@104 ; 13.34@102 on slicks
    '98 Dodge Neon R/T 15.66@89
    '03 Dodge SRT-4 13.91@98

  19. #59
    Bad Mother Flecker Turbo Mopar Staff fleckster's Avatar
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Craig View Post
    To get in the 14's you dont really have to do that much work.My first R/T(loaded) went 14.7's on D/R's with AFX ECU(Race Version),Iceman,paceshitter header,AFX UDP,thermal muffler,rest of exhaust stock.It was deadly consistent and reliable.

    My 97 ACR went 13.69@98 with a DCR built motor before it chucked a rod(not DCR's fault,long story) It was built 12.5-1 Je's stock rods(why it chucked one)AFX ECU,Iceman air intake,Bored stock Tb,DCR ported Intake,Crane 16's,stock injectors,walbro pump,DCR ported head afx udp,AFX long tube header and a few other tidbits. After it chucked the rod Iused a junkyard 2.0 DOHC of unknown origin.Used the Ported intake and TB,a paceshitter header,Iceman,and AFX ECU.Had also installed a set of coil overs and used same slicks from the DCR setup.Best it went was 14.23@91 Its not rocket science to make one run 14's.Do not use the Indy Intake,Its a big waste of money.Get a AFX Race ECU,itll go great with the other mods you have planned.
    That's pretty impressive, I think. The best time I cut at SDAC-23 last summer was a 15.91. I was disappointed but it was very consistent, especially since I hadn't raced it in probably close to 7 years. It was consistent enough for runner up in the bracket race!

    I'm a big guy (fat, not tall like Cordes) so that's a handicap. I've weighed my car on the scales at work and it was 2555lbs. (car alone) I really want to be consistently in the 14s (mid 14 ideally) on my street tires which are 205/50-16 Goodyear GS-3s. I used to be able to cut 2.1 short times on my original 14" R/T wheels and the 185/65 Eagle RS-As (they suck but the wheels are SO LIGHT) but at SDAC-23, my best was a 2.3 so that's were my previously quicker times went.

    Rough calculations on the .030" milled head should have my compression up to around 10.3-10.5 and with Steve's other headwork and the mildish Crane 12 Cams, based on your mods and times, I do think it is possible.

    John M. Fleck

    '83 Dodge Rampage 2.2 w/ 2.5L Turbo 14.79@94
    '87 Shelby Lancer #213 14.99@94
    '89 Chrysler LeBaron GT Turbo 'vert 15.88@92
    '92 Dodge Spirit R/T 13.50@104 ; 13.34@102 on slicks
    '98 Dodge Neon R/T 15.66@89
    '03 Dodge SRT-4 13.91@98

  20. #60
    boostaholic
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    Re: The Neon thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Wow, that is some seriously low mileage for a Neon.
    and a rarity to see a 1st gen where I work at.I do have some customers with a 2nd gen r/t that I work on all the time.They wont part with it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by fleckster View Post
    That's pretty impressive, I think. The best time I cut at SDAC-23 last summer was a 15.91. I was disappointed but it was very consistent, especially since I hadn't raced it in probably close to 7 years. It was consistent enough for runner up in the bracket race!

    I'm a big guy (fat, not tall like Cordes) so that's a handicap. I've weighed my car on the scales at work and it was 2555lbs. (car alone) I really want to be consistently in the 14s (mid 14 ideally) on my street tires which are 205/50-16 Goodyear GS-3s. I used to be able to cut 2.1 short times on my original 14" R/T wheels and the 185/65 Eagle RS-As (they suck but the wheels are SO LIGHT) but at SDAC-23, my best was a 2.3 so that's were my previously quicker times went.

    Rough calculations on the .030" milled head should have my compression up to around 10.3-10.5 and with Steve's other headwork and the mildish Crane 12 Cams, based on your mods and times, I do think it is possible.
    Thats pretty light for a r/t.My turbo 98 weighed 2750 with me in it when I ran it in Nopi.The ACR was 2300.

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