1990 Cast arms have 2 small bushings like stamped arms do.

[Vigo]

I am going to have to try and figure out a way to see if putting the stamped arms in my 90 dynasty moved the wheel back. If the 90 cast arms have the same ball joint location as the 91-up, it should have.

[cordes]

Well, here we go again it seems.


Frankly, I think there are actually multiple combinations of arms and knuckles out there which move things around a bit. That's the only thing I could see which could cause everyone to claim such vastly different things about what everything does. Heck, when I swapped in a 94 Shadow front suspension, K frame and all into my 86' 600 I don't think it moved anything forward. I didn't measure it, but there wasn't anything too noticeable to me.

[Reaper1]

I think the fact that it's been documented that the balljoint hole can be machined in different spots on different cast a-arms, even though they are the same part number.

The measurement of my rear suspension on my car, which the main mounting points have never been touched and the car has a straight unibody, has proven the factory tolerances were anything but tight! LOL

[Force Fed Mopar]

All I know is, I tried '89 Lebaron stamped arms and '93 Shadow cast arms in my '87 Daytona with a dual-pivot K-frame and '93 Shadow knuckles, and the wheel position did not move. However, going from the original '87 setup to the dual-pivot '89 up setup did seem to move the wheel slightly forward.

[Vigo]

My thread idea has turned into a crap-fest of contradictory statements where even proven facts seem confusing!

[cordes]

My thread idea has turned into a crap-fest of contradictory statements where even proven facts seem confusing!

It's got the momentum to be one of the all time greats for sure. I think I've learned a lot more even about the original subject matter. Thanks for posting it up.

[csxtra]

It's got the momentum to be one of the all time greats for sure. I think I've learned a lot more even about the original subject matter. Thanks for posting it up.

Oh I don't know if it could compare to this:

[Reaper1]

All I know is, I tried '89 Lebaron stamped arms and '93 Shadow cast arms in my '87 Daytona with a dual-pivot K-frame and '93 Shadow knuckles, and the wheel position did not move. However, going from the original '87 setup to the dual-pivot '89 up setup did seem to move the wheel slightly forward.

I'd take a stab at it and say that your experience could possibly be chalked up to the very sloppy factory tolerances. It's been observed that K-frames can even have varied positions of the mounting points.

So, now we have frame positions moving, body panel positions moving, k-frame position moving, a-arm position moving, ball joint position moving, and probably knuckle position moving. That's 6 variables that could change the end result of swapping parts.

We DO know that the design of the basic geometry was significantly changed in 1991. We even know what was changed; the ball joint position, both vertically and longitudinally (front/back). That is well documented. The two key players in that are the a-arms and the knuckle.

I'm also pretty sure that at least the G-body fenders were changed just a bit to allow for the change so the wheels were still centered in the wheel well in 1991. There was a guy that had to do some modification to put a '91 fender on an older g-body because the distance from the back edge of the fender, near the door, was longer on the newer fender. I want to say it was one of the european guys. We can even test that! Take a measurement on Lookowt on the fender at the body line. I'll do the same on my '88, and I also have a '90 fender I can measure. I wonder if the change of the fender actually happened in '92, because I do know for fact that fender is different than 2nd gen fenders. I'm down with trying if you are!

Knowing what we do about the possible machining tolerances and other variables, I find it totally plausible that some cars may be affected by the swap, and others not.

[Vigo]

Well, just to give you an idea of how flexible these cars are, i curbed my 93 dynasty a long time ago and bent the k-frame and the k-frame mounting points enouth that one front wheel was way back and one was way forward. So i put a daytona k-frame in it which got me halfway back to proper, and then used a come-along hooked between the k-frame and the core support to bend it the rest of the way into evenness. It aligned fine after that, but it goes to show how stuff might get tweaked and never fully repaired unless someone busts out a measuring tape and really checks. None of the bending that i fixed was really visually obvious so if i had gotten the car like that i dont know when if ever i would have noticed.

[cordes]

Oh I don't know if it could compare to this:

For technical threads in the suspension section of course. I doubt anything will top that one...

[Vigo]

I dont even know wtf that is..

[GLHNSLHT2]

ok, thread back on track, very interested in what Vigo finds.