Turbine housing and wheel decision time, looking for your input.

[86Shelby]

I'm going to be rebuilding the turbo on my R/T and have to make a few choices with the turbine side of the turbo. The turbine wheel is trashed so that is getting replaced. The turbine housing has several bolt holes that are getting worn out and some misguided porting that I'm not a big fan of so that would be replaced if a deal came along. Now I'm trying to decide if I want to change up the combo.

Currently the turbo is a T3/T4 hybrid. The cold side consists of a 50 trim compressor with the larger 'E' housing; this is staying the same barring a smoking deal on parts. The hot side is a .63 A/R with a Stg3(57mm) wheel. It's on a TIII. It's more of a fun cruiser, it is not a track only car although I enjoy taking it to MAM, our nearby 1/8 mile track. Basement 12s, high 11s are my ultimate goals on the track for the car. It's ran a handfull of 8.1s at MAM with the stock top end on the engine, no numbers for the new combo yet. I don't want to make a mistake and get something that ends up laggy and not fun to drive on the street; yet I'd rather not leave power on the table if I had only given up a couple hundred RPM for it to spool up.

With a stock top end, the current turbo would reach 20psi around 3300 rpm, which helped make a nice wide powerband to 6500 rpm. The car now has a ported head(#s below), slightly larger cams(no specs offhand) and a short runner intake. I don't have a good idea of the true powerband with the new combo since the turbo crapped out shortly after the engine was put back together. I put a smaller stock Dodge T3 turbo on it so that the car is driveable and the power comes on strong about 4000 rpm. The cam timing is not perfect, so that 4krpm figure may change a bit after some tuning though I wouldn't expect drastic changes.

Flowbench #'s from Larry @ CarQuest are
I/E
.1 97/76
.2 179/110
.3 230/140
.4 241/172

I've located 2 turbine housings for sale. The first is a .63 A/R machined for a stg 2(54mm) wheel, internal wastegate. My understanding(please correct if I'm wrong) is that this may spool a little quicker than my current combo since the turbine wheel is not only smaller diameter and a little lighter but also designed for quicker spool over greater flow.

The other housing is a .82A/R machined for a Stg 3 wheel also with an internal wastegate. This one would flow the most but would the larger A/R hurt the spool-up?

So, what do you think?

[GLHNSLHT2]

go with the .82. If you liked the spool on your old .63, and have a good ported head now you should be in about the same ballpark spool wise. I would not go down to a Stg 2.

[iTurbo]

If it were me I'd be inclined to go with the .63 with stg2. But honestly I only say that because of my; 1. lack of experience, 2. I live at 4500 ft elevation, 3. I drive on the street pretty much exclusively.

If you do go with the .82 I'd love to hear about it. Seems like you would make more HP per PSI with that for sure.

[86Shelby]

The stage 3 wheel was fine. I'm just exploring options trying not to dump a bunch of cash that I really don't want to spend.

[turbovanman²]

.82 will be laggy, around 43-4500 full spool. ARe you sure its a stage III .63 housing? With that same turbo and a basically stock top end, I would hit full spool around 4100 rpm, so if your doing it at 3300, then the .82 will be 36-3800. All your doing is making the bottom end soft and moving the powerband up, doubt you'll gain much hp. Stick with your current turbo or get an HE351, I have one for sale,

[86Shelby]

You're trying to get me to spend too much money LOL.

[turbovanman²]

You're trying to get me to spend too much money LOL.

Nah, its cheap, you know you want it, cheaper than rebuilding your current turbo,

[Shadow]

50 trim To4e (in larger native housing) and T3 .63 A/R stage III turbine is a very well balanced turbo for up to and even slightly above 500WHP on any 2.0 and up 16v 4cyl.

If you had an 8v I would say drop to the stage II turbine wheel for faster spool-up. If you want to make over 500WHP then I would say get the .82 A/R tubine housing and suffer a few hundred RPM longer spool-up time.

Now am I reading that right, the stock turbo with new ported head and cams is not full spool till 4000rpm? Or does the 4000rpm have nothing to do with spool time? (just a "feel" power rating)

Since you've made several changes and don't know what specs those cams are I would say put it back together .63 stage III and give yourself a baseline to dial your set-up back in!

[Pat]

50 trim To4e (in larger native housing) and T3 .63 A/R stage III turbine is a very well balanced turbo for up to and even slightly above 500WHP on any 2.0 and up 16v 4cyl.

I agree, a very well balanced turbo. I ran this very turbo for years in my T-III Shadow and absolutely loved it. Spooled nicely, great mid range and top end. I would tend to disagree about 500whp capability unless significant work was done to the motor. On the mild T-III in my car, I was experience boost drop with rpm while around the 450 whp mark, which indicated that the wastegate wouldn't hold the backpressure before the turbine or the compressor couldn't compress enough air at that flow rate. Or maybe a combo of both. Regardless, my experience with the turbo was extremely positive.

Hopefully in a few weeks, I'll have some reports on the T04E 50 trim/.48 T3 Stage III turbo on a mild T-III. It won't make the same power, but I'm hoping it will be a damn fun 350 whp. :-)

[Shadow]

I would tend to disagree about 500whp capability unless significant work was done to the motor. On the mild T-III in my car, I was experience boost drop with rpm while around the 450 whp mark, which indicated that the wastegate wouldn't hold the backpressure before the turbine or the compressor couldn't compress enough air at that flow rate. :-)

I should have been more specific. Definately with extreme engine work done. All I ment was I have seen a 50 trim To4e .63 A/R stage III make over 500WHP (dyno chart) (and at the track)

Was a reputable source, but again, depending on dyno ect results may vary.

[turbovanman²]

Hopefully in a few weeks, I'll have some reports on the T04E 50 trim/.48 T3 Stage III turbo on a mild T-III. It won't make the same power, but I'm hoping it will be a damn fun 350 whp. :-)

I've been waiting for this,

[Reaper1]

I agree, a very well balanced turbo. I ran this very turbo for years in my T-III Shadow and absolutely loved it. Spooled nicely, great mid range and top end. I would tend to disagree about 500whp capability unless significant work was done to the motor. On the mild T-III in my car, I was experience boost drop with rpm while around the 450 whp mark, which indicated that the wastegate wouldn't hold the backpressure before the turbine or the compressor couldn't compress enough air at that flow rate. Or maybe a combo of both. Regardless, my experience with the turbo was extremely positive.

Hopefully in a few weeks, I'll have some reports on the T04E 50 trim/.48 T3 Stage III turbo on a mild T-III. It won't make the same power, but I'm hoping it will be a damn fun 350 whp. :-)

I'm VERY keen to know how well this works! Are you going to do a pressure tap to see what the exhaust pressure vs. boost pressure is?

[iTurbo]

Looking forward to hearing more about the 50-trim/stg3/.48 housing combo...

A local friend of mine just bought that very turbo for a Spirit R/T. We decided to try something 'new' though, and went with the .72 A/R Cosworth housing from ATP Turbo. If it lags horribly I suppose we'll look into having the stock TIII .48 housing machined for the stg 3 wheel instead.

[Pat]

I will keep everyone posted. Goal is to have it running in June.

[turbovanman²]

Looking forward to hearing more about the 50-trim/stg3/.48 housing combo...

A local friend of mine just bought that very turbo for a Spirit R/T. We decided to try something 'new' though, and went with the .72 A/R Cosworth housing from ATP Turbo. If it lags horribly I suppose we'll look into having the stock TIII .48 housing machined for the stg 3 wheel instead.

The SRT guys love the Stage IIII/.48 combo, we had a big thread on it last year.

[86Shelby]

Now am I reading that right, the stock turbo with new ported head and cams is not full spool till 4000rpm? Or does the 4000rpm have nothing to do with spool time? (just a "feel" power rating)

Since you've made several changes and don't know what specs those cams are I would say put it back together .63 stage III and give yourself a baseline to dial your set-up back in!

Current turbo just so the car is driveable: stock TII compressor, center section and turbine wheel, .63/Stg3 housing. There's nearly 3/8" gap between the turbine wheel and the housing, pretty goofy looking. It's surprisingly responsive as far as spool up. The feel of the engine is that it really comes on around 4k, though it had that same feel with the stock head cams & intake.

The current plan is to stick with the .63 housing I have and run the hybrid turbo after a rebuild.

[Shadow]

Current turbo just so the car is driveable: stock TII compressor, center section and turbine wheel, .63/Stg3 housing. There's nearly 3/8" gap between the turbine wheel and the housing, pretty goofy looking. It's surprisingly responsive as far as spool up. The feel of the engine is that it really comes on around 4k, though it had that same feel with the stock head cams & intake.

The current plan is to stick with the .63 housing I have and run the hybrid turbo after a rebuild.

Wow! First time I've heard of a stage 1 wheel in a stage 3 housing......and it spools! lol Ya I don't see you having a problem with the .63 stage 3.

So did I miss it? What are you power goals?

[turbovanman²]

Current turbo just so the car is driveable: stock TII compressor, center section and turbine wheel, .63/Stg3 housing. There's nearly 3/8" gap between the turbine wheel and the housing, pretty goofy looking. It's surprisingly responsive as far as spool up. The feel of the engine is that it really comes on around 4k, though it had that same feel with the stock head cams & intake.

The current plan is to stick with the .63 housing I have and run the hybrid turbo after a rebuild.

That's crazy, lol.

[Vigo]

stock TII compressor, center section and turbine wheel, .63/Stg3 housing. There's nearly 3/8" gap between the turbine wheel and the housing, pretty goofy looking. It's surprisingly responsive as far as spool up

I am shocked that that works well. Therefore this is really good info! hehe

[86Shelby]

I don't have a firm HP figure in mind. My goal for the car is to run high 11's. I feel it's certainly achievable since the car went 8.1x at 85-86 mph in the 1/8 on 21 psi plenty of times, then later layed down 365whp at 24psi on a stock head, cams & intake. Ported head, Lonewolf cams, shorter runner big plenum intake and tuning should bring the hp figure up. I figure it will take 415-430whp or so to make the 11s a reality, but that's just guessing for the most part.


Frankenturbo Installed:


Standard wheel, STG3 housing:


The reason for all of these shenanigans.