Project LookOwt: Saving a piece of 3.0 history

[MC#4]

I can't imagine it having over 10:1 compression considering the heavy nitrous use. Most engines built around power adders (boost) lower compression don't they? I put 10:1 forged pistons in my 3.0 and plan to run 100+hp of nitrous through it though.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Nitrous loves compression.

[Reaper1]

I agree. Every nitrose build I've ever heard of uses high compression. Remember that the expanding gas is very cold, so it is basically a chemical intercooler. It workss wellwith boost, too for the same reason, but if you don't have it tuned just right it'll munch an engine fast. The thing with nitose is that the engine is basically a grenade. It'll be ok for a while, but eventually it will volcano.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Not necessarily. If it's tuned right it shouldn't be any harder on it than any other power adder. Most engine kills from nitrous are caused by component malfunctions.

[Ondonti]

I think as long as you are not making the very large direct port hit near idle rpms you will be fine. Progressive controller would be nice, even for traction.

[Reaper1]

The car *should* have come with a Jacob's Mastermind N2O controller. I don't think they even make it anymore, but from what I've heard, before stand-alone engine management systems were affordable, that controller was the best thing going. It can control the ramp-up, timing retard, rev limiter (for both the engine and the N2O IIRC), and I think it can also control a 2nd stage hit as well. Pretty cool stuff for the time it was in production, and is still better than some of the ones out there now...especially since the Jacob's isn't time based.

[Force Fed Mopar]

It's still with it, and it is still set where he had it it seems. It wasn't wired in anymore, so I'll have to re-do that to use it.

[Reaper1]

I think when he got the HalTec installed the shop unhooked it because that ECU is supposed to have the same functions. I don't know how either compares to the other.

[Force Fed Mopar]

So here is the stock 19# injectors vs the 24# 5.2 injectors I'm running.



As you can see, the 5.2 injectors don't have the higher injector clip groove. Without this, the injector pushes up into the rail and allows a vacuum leak where it sits in the intake. I'm thinking I can just add the grooves carefully with a Dremel or some such. Thoughts? Is there a Ford or other OEM injector around that size that has that upper groove?

[Reaper1]

I'm probably wrong because it's been such a long time, and I'm sure Brent has covered this, but I thought that Ford 5.0 injectors worked? You have to make sure the resistance is correct for the computer you are running, but other than that I could swear they were said to work.

[Force Fed Mopar]

That's what I heard, but those are what caused my engine fire due to the o-rings leaking However that was with the blue Ford o-rings, I think they'd be fine with the Chrysler o-rings instead (they are slightly thicker). I can't remember if they had the upper clip grooves either. Also, stock 5.0 injectors are only 19# as well (same as stock 3.0), so I'd have to source some aftermarket 24's.

[Ondonti]

Ford injectors that I have used never needed the clips because they are a bit too long so the bolts that hold the fuel rail in keep things in place. The problem is that you have to make sure everything is seated properly. Even the slop in the fuel rail bolt holes will allow things to not seat well.

I have no idea if I swapped fuel injector O rings or not. I would guess they won't be a perfect fit on the ID. Only rail leaks I have ever had was when the injector was crooked on an intake manifold (mitsu manifold).

I see no reason to worry about tiny vacuum leaks when it comes down to fixing stuff like that. The only thing they mess with is your OCD. Even when boosted.

[Force Fed Mopar]

This was causing a pretty good vacuum leak. Spray something at it and it'd change idle considerably. It's also idling at 12-1400 when hot. Throttle body closes completely and the IAC motor is correct and works.

I took it all apart again tonight and greased the o-rings so I could slide the injectors up and down easier, and with the rail bolted down, I could push the injectors down enough for them to pop out of the fuel rail. I don't like that.

I did locate a set of Ford 24# injectors from one of my buddies that I can trade out some work for, they have the proper clip grooves. Should have them by the weekend I hope.

[Ondonti]

This was causing a pretty good vacuum leak. Spray something at it and it'd change idle considerably. It's also idling at 12-1400 when hot. Throttle body closes completely and the IAC motor is correct and works.

I took it all apart again tonight and greased the o-rings so I could slide the injectors up and down easier, and with the rail bolted down, I could push the injectors down enough for them to pop out of the fuel rail. I don't like that.

I did locate a set of Ford 24# injectors from one of my buddies that I can trade out some work for, they have the proper clip grooves. Should have them by the weekend I hope.

I still couldn't get Fords to work with the clip because they bottom out on the rail before the groove lines up with the rail. That is why I remember them being too long.

[Force Fed Mopar]

I still couldn't get Fords to work with the clip because they bottom out on the rail before the groove lines up with the rail. That is why I remember them being too long.

Must've been some different ones, because I got these to work with no issue. The ones I have are '93 Cobra injectors, which are really just 460 injectors. They are working good. Unfortunately my vacuum leak appears to still be there, still makes the same whistling noise while running. Still not sure where it is coming from but it may be from the lower intake gaskets. I've checked everything above it. If the heads are milled excessively there could be a mis-match on the intake face angles.

In other news, I drove a short trip to my wife's grandparents today, sort of a test run. Worked good going there. On the way home, not so much. I kicked it in first gear, and the front pump died I believe. Didn't shift right, then wouldn't go to overdrive, then no third. Added some fluid but didn't help, got it about a half mile from home before it wouldn't go any more, it'd hold first for about 50-100ft then nothing. Left it an hour and came back, nothing, won't pull.Front pump is whining like hell. Had to tow chain it home. So, transmission get to get out and get built...

[Reaper1]

That blows... I'm very curious to know what bit it. I wonder if having the fluid all jacked up had something to do with it?

[Force Fed Mopar]

I'm sure it didn't help. I probably should have waited til I flushed it some more, or just pulled it and had it gone through, but I'm impatient sometimes Anyways, I think there are later model upgrades that can be applied that weren't available when this trans was built, which was what, 15 years ago? I'm about to resurrect all the 604 threads lol...

[Reaper1]

It's going to be the zombie thread apocalypse! LMAO

[Ondonti]

Eh, I wonder if the entire transmission was robbed in exchange for a junker.

[Force Fed Mopar]

could've have been. Or maybe Rick sold the built one and installed a stock used one before selling it. Who knows. No big deal, I may just hunt up the newest 3.0 604 that they made and use it as a build base instead, as it'll have the 5-pinion rear planetary and other late model upgrades.