FWD Mopar strut interchangeability w/pics

[Vigo]

Im not sure they would be stiffer. They have about the same wire diameter and less pitch to the coils so i think that means id have to make them even shorter than the SRT springs to get close to the same rate.

I'll take a pic of the LCA angle on the dynasty tomorrow. As for CV angles, i dont know how to answer that other than to say i drove the other dynasty like that for maybe 10-15k miles with no issues.

[Reaper1]

I didn't catch where the pitch was different. Sorry.

[Shadowv4l]

I just ordered 2005 srt Koni yellow front strut inserts to go into 1988 Pbody stock strut housings using a stock strut mount. Also will be using cut 3.0L pbody springs in the front and rear. I guess i should mention the car is a 2.2 turbo motor.

Iv'e used Subaru koni inserts before and it worked great but the srt4 inserts are much cheaper (srt4 - 132 each , scoobie - 200 each IIRC) I shall take pics of the aftermath.

[Shadowv4l]

i just looked for shits'n giggles, the subaru inserts are 185 each with the sale going on so its still much cheaper.

[Vigo]

Yeah thats a big difference. As long as it doesnt cost you $50/each to get those inserts lathed to fit in the stock upper mount! I did mine half---- with a bench grinder on my old setup but i wasnt worried about breaking into the middle where the adjuster shaft is on an adjustable koni...

For my Dynasty im just going to try the Koni Streets next, but it'll probably be a while unless i start autocrossing and feel like it needs it. Tonight i took some cloverleaf turns at speed and the car still has limit understeer in steady state cornering so im gonna bolt on the rear sway bar i have. Not sure if it's going to fit right since these Dynastys have the oval rear bushings and im not sure if the arms are exactly the same length as the older round bushing axles. I wasnt sure it was going to need the swaybar with a boxed in torsion beam and those thick Caprice springs in the back but id like to get it pretty neutral in steady state turns. Part of that will probably be slotting the front struts so i can get some real camber. K-car struts give you plenty of camber but Neon struts have no adjustment there.

Anyway, here's pics of my LCA angle. It's not great, but im not worried about it. The car doesnt lean very much. Id be a lot more worried about roll center if it had floppy stock springs and tiny swaybar. Id like to get some ball joint extenders but i havent found a cheap option. My Lebaron LCA angle is going to be a LOT worse than this.

[Sethyboy85]

So way back when i first put NSRT springs/struts on my 93 dynasty with stock k-car upper strut mounts, i was pretty damn happy with how it turned out. After a while i decided i wanted it just a LITTLE bit lower.

So recently i got a cleaner 'clone' of my old, trashed dynasty and swapped all the suspension stuff over. When i did this, i decided to try something to get that extra little bit of lowering. After i figured out my 245/40r17 (~24.7" diameter) tires would fit under the regular 2g neon spring perch (~.25" lower than the NSRT/PT spring perch), I put the SRT springs on regular 2g neon struts and left the upper spring isolators (rubber pad things) out, which are around 3/8" to 1/2" thick depending on how beat up they are. That got me the little bit of extra drop i wanted without cutting the spring.

Comparison pics:

This is the original setup (NSRT stock springs/struts with k-car upper strut mount) on the old dynasty, and all stock on the new dynasty.


This is the new setup (2g neon struts, NSRT stock springs, no spring isolators, neon upper strut mounts) next to my spirit which has PT cruiser struts/springs on it (same strut design as NSRT but different spring). And no i still havent fixed that lug stud because im a rebel (i just havent started driving the car yet)!

Now, keep in mind that the PT cruiser struts on the spirit, the NSRT struts on the old dynasty, and the 2g neon struts on the new dynasty only differ by .25", so the massive difference between the spirit and the lowered dynasties is all down to the springs! This experience is why i can say a stock pt cruiser spring is 'useless' and stock NSRT4 springs are 'the bomb'. It's pretty slammed, I have just as much strut travel as a stock srt-4, and the ride is firm but not harsh at all. It rides way better than it looks like it would, and handles pretty good too.

I wanna drop my Spirit like the top photo on the left, well maybe not that low but close, very close.

[moparman76_69]

So what would SRT stuff do to the front of a van?

[Shadowv4l]

Yeah thats a big difference. As long as it doesnt cost you $50/each to get those inserts lathed to fit in the stock upper mount! I did mine half---- with a bench grinder on my old setup but i wasnt worried about breaking into the middle where the adjuster shaft is on an adjustable koni...

For my Dynasty im just going to try the Koni Streets next, but it'll probably be a while unless i start autocrossing and feel like it needs it. Tonight i took some cloverleaf turns at speed and the car still has limit understeer in steady state cornering so im gonna bolt on the rear sway bar i have. Not sure if it's going to fit right since these Dynastys have the oval rear bushings and im not sure if the arms are exactly the same length as the older round bushing axles. I wasnt sure it was going to need the swaybar with a boxed in torsion beam and those thick Caprice springs in the back but id like to get it pretty neutral in steady state turns. Part of that will probably be slotting the front struts so i can get some real camber. K-car struts give you plenty of camber but Neon struts have no adjustment there.

Anyway, here's pics of my LCA angle. It's not great, but im not worried about it. The car doesnt lean very much. Id be a lot more worried about roll center if it had floppy stock springs and tiny swaybar. Id like to get some ball joint extenders but i havent found a cheap option. My Lebaron LCA angle is going to be a LOT worse than this.

cant say i'm a huge fan of that LCA angle, I wonder what it would look like when you hit a large bump or corner hard

[Vigo]

cant say i'm a huge fan of that LCA angle, I wonder what it would look like when you hit a large bump or corner hard

Dunno, but ive already hit dips pretty hard and nothing bad happened (axle popping out etc). The old dynasty was only a little higher and i drove it about a year like that. My aries with 1g struts was WAY worse on the LCA angle and nothing bad happened to the axles. It just hit the pans on the ground on hard dips and would drag anything bigger than a soda can down the road so you had to watch out for roadkill and go around it.. I think my dynasty k-frame is 2.5-3" off the ground in that pic up there.

So what would SRT stuff do to the front of a van?

I think the LCA angles would be fu**ed to high heaven and back. Most people should (imo) just put kcar springs/struts on them.


Stock

Springs/struts off my spirit, and an AWD rear axle on stock fwd leaf springs. Im gonna lower it some more but i have a bunch of weight to add to it before i mess with the suspension again. All the interior was out in this picture which is like 300 lbs in a van!

OH YEAH and that spirit in the background there was a stock 2g neon spring/strut, before i tried PT stuff on it (only because i stole the neon strut for my dynasty, hah!).

[Reaper1]

Bump steer has got to be a motha!

I agree that the LCA angle is....meh. I understand you have limited jounce travel, so the bad effects are kept to a minimum, and I bet that the wide tires you are able to run actually mask the issue even better.

The problem with the axles won't be during normal driving, but rather in drag-race type situations where jolting is involved. You will see a higher percentage of CV failure due to the angle. I am not going to even DARE to guess the statistical data on that, but it is fact. You may never have it happen...but somebody else might break one ever other Saturday. Who knows.

[moparman76_69]

I was thinking the pt struts appear to be close to caravan struts. If they are the same as srt struts, how big of a difference do the spring make in ride height?

[Vigo]

Yeah, a lot of axle issues seem to be a crap shoot. The only ones i've actually broken as in pieces came out was the drivers side on my caravan doing a burnout with a lot of steering angle, and my friends 95 turbo caravan broke the same axle going through a dip at high speed and full boost.

Ive also never encountered torque steer on ANY of my turbo cars. The only k-car ive EVER felt it on was my old 3.3 dynasty and i attribute it mostly to motor mounts. So some of us seem to be more afflicted by stuff than others.

I do seem to remember bump steer on the old dynasty but i havent experienced it yet with the new one. I assume it is still there since the setup is mostly the same. I wonder how much i can space the rack up before the steering coupler bottoms out?

As far as compression travel, the strut itself should have basically the same compression travel as a stock srt4 does since the spring is unaltered and the vehicle weight is within ~200-300lbs, not all of which is on the front. BUT, i am limited in up travel by my tires touching parts of the inner fender. That may only be because they are so wide, but either way you have to 'screw up' to hit something that hard, like not noticing you are going way too fast for the dip up ahead. I already put this dynasty through some nasty stuff on purpose to see where my mechanical limits would be on suspension movement. Right now i know there is a seam weld and some seam sealer glops in the inner fender that i need to grind down, but when going straight i have more compression travel than i normally need before there is contact anywhere. I have very little compression travel before contact when theres a lot of steering angle (parking maneuvers, etc, not driving speed).

[turbovanman²]

Personally, i was surprised to learn that the difference in caravan and k-car rear shocks wasnt any bigger. I thought the van shocks were much shorter.

They are not even close, mini shocks are like 6" or more shorter.

So what would SRT stuff do to the front of a van?

I would think it would be in the weeds, if I am reading correctly, using all his options lowers the car, so if Daytona struts/springs drop it 3.5-4", then those will be even lower.

[Vigo]

According to the spec sheets caravan rear shocks are only ~3" shorter than car shocks. I thought it was like 6" too. My van is lowered 3-4 inches so ideally id be looking for something 3-4" shorter than a stock van shock.

[moparman76_69]

FYI PT struts are the same for both N/A and turbo apps, they are the same as 2G neon struts (in dimension), but they ARE NOT the same as SRT struts. Unfortunately there aren't any performance options for PTs either. Looks like I'm stuck seeing if subie AGXs will work, or spending $$ on Koni inserts.

[turbovanman²]

According to the spec sheets caravan rear shocks are only ~3" shorter than car shocks. I thought it was like 6" too. My van is lowered 3-4 inches so ideally id be looking for something 3-4" shorter than a stock van shock.

Going by my tired memory, lol, but the difference is very noticeable.

[Vigo]

FYI PT struts are the same for both N/A and turbo apps, they are the same as 2G neon struts (in dimension), but they ARE NOT the same as SRT struts. Unfortunately there aren't any performance options for PTs either. Looks like I'm stuck seeing if subie AGXs will work, or spending $$ on Koni inserts.

The only difference physically between a 2g neon and a PT/srt4 strut is ~1/4" difference in the height of the lower spring perch. The PT and SRT4 share the same dimensions but they are probably different dampers inside. Any front strut you can get for an SRT4 will bolt onto a PT front and vice versa. You can get Tokico blue and illumina for the PT off-hand, so it's not like they have 0 options. The 2g neon which is practically the same thing, you can get a Koni Street for <$100 or you can put an adjustable insert in it for $130-200.

I used to think the spring perch difference was a lot bigger, and you couldnt fit a decent sized tire on a 2g neon strut. Turns out you can fit a ~25" tire on them (my 245/40/r17 are ~24.7") so they really arent that limiting. If you had an SRT-4 you could probably put a 2g neon koni street on it with absolutely no issues unless you had a really tall tire size.

[Vigo]

More neon mish-mash stuff:

You can put LH (intrepid concorde LHS et al) front springs on a neon front strut. If you cut them short enough for a 1g strut they become fairly stiff. Even if you dont cut them, they are still advertised around ~180 lb/in according to napa.

So a stock LH spring might be a slightly stiffer, slightly lower spring on a 2g neon strut.


1g neon on left, some intrepid front spring on right.

Thread with some info:
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.ph...rings#p3161396

[fishcleaner]

good stuff

[Vigo]

Here's my latest lowering project with some pics to give yall an idea what 1g neon struts do.

I dont recommend 1g struts on k-cars because it gives you a bad lower control arm angle and makes it possible to smash your oil pans into the ground unless you take specific precautions by adding tall bumpstops or a skidplate or something. I wanted to lower my 82 Lebaron to fit 205/50/15s, and i plan to do either or both bumpstops and a skidplate, so i put 1g neon struts on it. Since it is an 82 and still has the l-body style 2-bolt strut tops, i did not have to modify the strut towers at all. All i had to do was cut the 3rd stud off of the neon strut top.



Stock nose-high look. 195/60r14 23" tall wheel/tire.

With 1g neon struts in front (rear is still stock). It kind of looks terrible with stock wheels, but stock wheels were never part of the plan anyway.

The wheels i have for it are 5x100 and i havent 5-lug swapped the car yet (have all the parts) so i can only stand the wheels up next to it. I havent polished the wheels yet and the center caps are missing, but this already did what i wanted: It got me excited to finish building it!! The new tires are almost the same height, 205/50/15 ~23" tall.

I will lower the back, but this pic makes me think i want to keep a little rake to it. So that's what 1g neon struts do.

EDIT: Couldn't wait, so i did the back too. Just used the cut and spacered cargo coils that came out of the old dynasty and it landed just about perfect. I might put some lower spring rubbers back in it since they were trashed and i left them out.

Now i have to do the 5lug swap so i can actually bolt those wheels on. Ill start a project thread soon.