FWD Mopar strut interchangeability w/pics

[Vigo]

Ok, most of y'all probably know ive used 1g and 2g neon struts on my K-cars and participated in conversations and done research on other things like junkyard springs that fit our stock perches and shocks from pickup trucks that fit our cars, etc.

Well, recently i noticed a couple things that got me thinking again. First is that Koni once again sells struts for 1g neon (non adjustable, ~$100/pc), which is good for me since i own one. They also make them for 2g. Another thing is that Raceland makes a cheap coilover setup for 2g neon/srt4 (complete bolt in struts w/coilovers ~$370), which is good for me since i use 2g neon/srt4/PT front struts in my dynasty and spirit.

Recently i also figured out i could put some LRE L-body front springs i have in my rear neon struts as well. So all this got me thinking about interchangeability again, and i figured id make a post with some strut specs so people could do some thinking without having to click back and forth endlessly like me.

First, the standard K-car front strut. 86-down struts have minor differences but these cover everything 87-up except caravans and L-bodies.


L-body front


84-95 Caravan


1g Neon Front


2g Neon Front


PT/NSRT Front


And also the 1g neon REAR strut.. hmm.


2g neon rear strut:


And here's some rear shocks:
Kcar


Caravan


PT Cruiser


---------- Post added at 08:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 PM ----------

Here's my latest crazy idea. How about a 1g neon rear koni in front of a caravan?!? DUN DUN DUN

[Reaper1]

Subscribed to see the crazyness!!

[Vigo]

Im not actually going to try the caravan thing but while i have my Neon rear struts out putting L-body front springs on them (lawl) i'll get a better idea of how feasible that is.

The main point is that if someone sees a nice set of PT dampers going for cheap, you could actually use them on a k-car with minor mods, and they have some good damper options.

Personally, i was surprised to learn that the difference in caravan and k-car rear shocks wasnt any bigger. I thought the van shocks were much shorter.

[GLHNSLHT2]

thanks for posting

[Vigo]

I also figured out that you can put LH (intrepid et al) front springs on neon struts, which apparently end up at a pretty high rate if you cut a lot off them. I heard 300 lb/in on neons.org if you cut them enough for a 1st gen. That could be a cheap and stiff option for people swapping 2g neon struts onto k-cars.

2g neon koni $100 + jyard intrepid spring?

[Shadowv4l]

are pt cruiser rear shocks any different than neon shocks? and what are the specs on the 1st gen neon rear shocks?

---------- Post added at 10:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 PM ----------

vigo, where is your thread showing the modifications you needed to do to run the front neon struts?

[speedfreek500]

Great info

Will you be doing this for the L body cars also?

[Vigo]

I can easily add the pics for the Lbody stuff to the first post.

I covered the 2g neon struts in my 89 dodge spirit project log. http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...l=1#post795051

Neons use a rear strut, where PTs use a regular shock. The rear neon struts are very tall. The 1g is as tall as a caravan front strut and the 2g rear strut is too tall to do anything at all with. EDIT: Or so i thought! See Pg.3.

[Vigo]

Ok, i just got some more info from real-life struts.

There's only a little over 1/4" difference between 2g neon and PT cruiser struts as far as the lower spring perch location. On the other hand, PT cruisers seem to have longer/stiffer springs (i didnt dismount them so i dont know their differences in free length, but they are obviously different springs from coil pitch and diameter). I just swapped a 2g neon strut/spring out for a PT cruiser strut/spring on my Spirit and it raised it well over an inch.

Also, i test fit one of my 245/40/17 17x8 +35s on the 2g neon strut to see if it would clear the perch, and it does.

So what this means is that noone should run PT cruiser struts/springs together unless you get them for free or have a tire even taller than mine (imo). With PT springs they dont lower the car enough to be worth the mods. The same strut with srt4 springs on it is a decent drop.

Or, what im about to do, 2g neon struts with srt4 springs, should be an even better drop.

Btw, that 245 on an 8" wide wheel didnt fit the spirit at ALL. I mean, it stuck out of the fender about an inch! It fits just right on the dynasty. One of the things most people would probably never notice is that the dynasty has some pretty big flares on each of the wheelwells, which probably doesnt make it look any better on 195/75/14s, but it makes room for a big wide tire to sit flush with the fender flares when you slam it.

[zin]

Sounds like the PT springs and struts are the JY rally set-up! Or are you just talking about them not lowering the car?

Mike

[Vigo]

Well they might still be a little lower than the stock spring/strut setup on a k-car, but i didnt compare that back to back.

I only push the neon struts as a method of lowering while retaining strut travel. If you are just looking for a better damper you can get the koni inserts for the 2g neon/srt4 and put them in the stock housings if you want to keep stock-style springs.

Shox.com is running a 20% off sale on Konis right now but im not sure if you can order just front struts, they only list a full set online. But the 2g front Koni Streets are under $100/pc so with 20% off you might be able to get a front koni strut for like $79. You can also get Tokico Blues and Illuminas for these apps.

Edit: Yes they sell them individually, at $99/pc. So they would be ~$79/each for front konis if one wanted to do it. That plus some SRT4 springs or cheap coilover sleeves would make a pretty good lowering/handling setup for cheap.

[Xtrempickup]

i had a set of front coil overs from a 1st gen neon on my Rampage.

[Vigo]

Yeah L-bodies can use 1st gen neon stuff but if you put it on a k-car you have to run short tires or they'll hit when you turn, and stiff springs or it will bottom out the k-frame and the pans a lot. That's what i found when i had 1g neon stuff on my aries. EDIT: And now on my 82 Lebaron.

[speedfreek500]

So your saying "L-bodies can use 1st gen neon stuff" Will this lower the car or will it still be close to the same height as stock?

Thanks Brian

[Xtrempickup]

my rampage's tires was tucked with 205/50/15s using 1st gen neon coil overs

[speedfreek500]

my rampage's tires was tucked with 205/50/15s using 1st gen neon coil overs

Do you have a pic of how it looked after? I don't wanna lower my any more than 1/2"

Thanks for the input.

[Xtrempickup]

definately dropped it more like an 1in + in the front. 1/2in would have been waste of time, the previous owner flipped the rear axle to gain i think 1 1/2 in the rear so the whole rampage sat low and tucked the tires in.

[Vigo]

Yeah 1g neon is a big drop even for an L-body. L-body and K-car have nearly the same front strut dimensions but 1g works better on a Lbody because a lot of people already run short ~23" tires. If you put them on a k-car with normal k-car size tires you cant even turn them, they hit the top of the fender, and almost noone runs tires that small on the k-cars.

Im still gonna do 1g neon struts again on my 82 lebaron convert with 23" tires for a big drop, but I'll have to run some really tall bumpstops in front to keep my oil pan from hitting on bumps (EDIT: Too lazy, broke the oil pan instead. Welded and kept going..), and to get it that low in the back you have to cut up and shorten the rear bumpstops or the car will just be sitting on them. So it's a major drop for a k-car and a lot of work.

Its a biggish drop for an l-body but at least you dont have to cut your strut tower and buy different tires, modify bumpstops or any of that business.

[Vigo]

So way back when i first put NSRT springs/struts on my 93 dynasty with stock k-car upper strut mounts, i was pretty damn happy with how it turned out. After a while i decided i wanted it just a LITTLE bit lower.

So recently i got a cleaner 'clone' of my old, trashed dynasty and swapped all the suspension stuff over. When i did this, i decided to try something to get that extra little bit of lowering. After i figured out my 245/40r17 (~24.7" diameter) tires would fit under the regular 2g neon spring perch (~.25" lower than the NSRT/PT spring perch), I put the SRT springs on regular 2g neon struts and left the upper spring isolators (rubber pad things) out, which are around 3/8" to 1/2" thick depending on how beat up they are. That got me the little bit of extra drop i wanted without cutting the spring.

Comparison pics:

This is the original setup (NSRT stock springs/struts with k-car upper strut mount) on the old dynasty, and all stock on the new dynasty.


This is the new setup (2g neon struts, NSRT stock springs, no spring isolators, neon upper strut mounts) next to my spirit which has PT cruiser struts/springs on it (same strut design as NSRT but different spring). And no i still havent fixed that lug stud because im a rebel (i just havent started driving the car yet)!

Now, keep in mind that the PT cruiser struts on the spirit, the NSRT struts on the old dynasty, and the 2g neon struts on the new dynasty only differ by .25", so the massive difference between the spirit and the lowered dynasties is all down to the springs! This experience is why i can say a stock pt cruiser spring is 'useless' and stock NSRT4 springs are 'the bomb'. It's pretty slammed, I have just as much strut travel as a stock srt-4, and the ride is firm but not harsh at all. It rides way better than it looks like it would, and handles pretty good too.

[Reaper1]

How are your A-arm and CV axle angles?

If you wanted to firm-up the spring rate so you didn't have to worry about bottoming, I'd trim the PT springs to the ride height you want. They will be WAY stiffer than the NSRT springs, BUT, the dampers might not be able to handle it for very long, so aftermarket true performance dampers would be in order....in that case, why no go coil-over and be done with it!?