Flashable LM or Super LM?

[ShelGame]

So, I've been looking over a flashable LM that was sent to me, trying to figure out how to make it easier to reproduce (it's basically a hand-made deal, lots of wires going from A to B, traces cut, etc.).

It might be possible to make a more simple flashable LM, but I had another idea - a complete daughter board to replace the 6803 with a 6811 and a flash memory chip. This would replace the analog-to-digital converter, the memory chip, the timer chip, and the processor on the LM board with sockets, and a module would be inserted into it's place. Should be reversible, I think.

I need to finish making a schematic of the existing T2 LM logic circuits to even see how feasible this is, but I think it would solve a lot of the headache issues I have with the LM. Namely, that NONE of the code is quite the same as the SMEC.

So, the options would be:

1) Flash module - this would replace the memory chip, and possibly require some reworking of the LM board (cut traces, added wires).

2) Super LM daughter baord - this would replace the logic circuit chips on the LM with sockets, and give the LM a processor upgrade to a 6811 (same processor as the SMEC/SBEC) allowing it to use some of the SMEC code and add some functionality.

I have no idea at this point what either would cost, but figure the flash module might be a hair more than the SMEC/SBEC, and I guess that the Super-LM Board would be twice that. So, maybe $50 and $100.

[chilort]

I like the idea of a Super. But I don't know how many would sell. I have to get my car back on the road and messing with the 4-play before I do anything else.

I'd be doing it more for the processor upgrade and newer code.

[zin]

I'd be doing it more for the processor upgrade and newer code.

These are my thoughts as well... If the processor would be upgraded, any reason to not make it better/faster than what comes stock in a SMEC/SBEC? I've seen where processors can be very little more money for what appears to be a much "better" unit.

Mike

[Aries_Turbo]

super please.

ive toyed around with swapping to the SMEC for my reliant for a while given the features in the T-SMEC code over the T-LM and I have a mint SMEC caravan harness (cake swap in a K-Car... 2 pins moved for the windshield wiper motor) but this would make it easier.

Brian

[ShelGame]

I was just looking at the different components and trying to figure out how things would match up. I think this actually could work very well. It would bootstrap the same way the SBEC's do (using the Rx pin). But, that should be no problem.

I would use a 68HC11E0. This has 512 bytes of RAM (double the SMEC and matching the SBEC and SBECII), and no internal EEPROM. The internal EEPROM is only used for stuff like the anti-theft system and mileage storage. I assume those wouldn't be necessary in an LM. And, not having the on-board EEPROM makes mapping in the 32k memory that much easier. In fact, it might be possible to map in a 64k memory chip. This would allow for much bigger binaries (IE more code) and possibly switchable cals. not sure if that would be necessary since it will also be flashable, but it's possible.

The module would be ~2x4" and would require socketing basically the whole bottom portion of the LM board. Or, at least removing the stock chips. The processor, memory and A2D converter would need to be socketed since those chips have the pins the module would need. The 74HC373 and 74HC00 would just need to be removed.

Does anyone know what the small 8-pin chip is near the middle of the board? Is this a watchdog chip of some kind?

---------- Post added at 06:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 PM ----------

I like the idea of a Super. But I don't know how many would sell. I have to get my car back on the road and messing with the 4-play before I do anything else.

I'd be doing it more for the processor upgrade and newer code.

I don't know how many would sell either. I think I might go ahead and do 10, and see if I can sell those, then decide to make more or not.

I don't think the hardware is going to be tough to develop at all. But, the new source code might take some time. So, I would need at least 1 person willing to help develop the special hybrid source code the SuperLM would need; since I don't have an LM car at my disposal.

[Tbird232ci]

I would love the super LM, especially if it would allow the T-SMEC functions on a LM. I've been reading and contemplating the SMEC conversion because of how much better some of the Turbonator functions work on the SMEC than the LM, such as the staging limiter and the anti lag.

If the super LM happens, the only SMEC advantage really becomes how much cleaner the harness and single module is.

[OmniLuvr]

i think "switchable" AND flashable would be SUPER awesome on the super. i love your 4 play because just a simple turn of a knob and you have a new tune, i just hate pulling the chip to burn more cals on it if there is a cal i dont like.

thanks so much for your hard work and new ideas trying to pioneer things to keep our hobby/cars moving forward and not staying stagnent...

[csxtra]

I'd definitely run the Super LM if you decide to make them...having the extra room for more code features would be great!

Like Bucar I have been toying with the idea of running a SMEC for the extra features, but didn't want to rewire and start over, so this would be awesome.

Would the Super LM possibly allow for any more Analog inputs than the standard LM?

[ShelGame]

I'd definitely run the Super LM if you decide to make them...having the extra room for more code features would be great!

Like Bucar I have been toying with the idea of running a SMEC for the extra features, but didn't want to rewire and start over, so this would be awesome.

Would the Super LM possibly allow for any more Analog inputs than the standard LM?

None of the 68HC11 processor has more analog channels than the 8 currently on the LM. And, there's no unused ports on the 6811 to be able to simply add another external A2D chip. I would then also have to add another port expander. It just gets too complicated, I think.

I thought about it some more tonight, and I think the SMEC software can actually largely carry over. It might even be possible to wire in the 6811 so that the switch ports, analog channels, coil drivers, etc. look the same.

[Force Fed Mopar]

What would the faster processor actually do? What can the SMEC do now that the LM can't? Mileage and driveability seem to be largely the same between the two. SBEC might have slightly better mileage and driveability with the sequential injection.

[ShelGame]

What would the faster processor actually do? What can the SMEC do now that the LM can't? Mileage and driveability seem to be largely the same between the two. SBEC might have slightly better mileage and driveability with the sequential injection.

It's actually not any 'faster' in terms of clock speed or anything like that. But, the 6811 has several arithmetic instructions that aren't in the 6803. A divide instruction primariliy. So, it's the simplified calculations in the 6811 that make it faster. There are some bit-test type of instructions that are also much simpler in the 6811. So, the code is faster to execute, and takes up less memory.

But, really it's more than that. The LM has only 192 bytes of RAM. The SMEC has 256, and the SBEC and later 512 (or more in some of the later SBECII's). It's hard to add the extra features (like spark cut and anti-lag) with the limmited RAM available. And, with the 6803 being short of instructions, the code can't be the same between the 2.

Mostly, it's just something I thought would be cool, and not too tough to do.

[wowzer]

put me down for 1 of the 10!!

[black86glhs]

Will the super LM have its own cape???!!!

[ShelGame]

Will the super LM have its own cape???!!!

LOL, I thought about painting them all red, just for effect...

[Force Fed Mopar]

So currently, the LM does not have the staging limiter, nitrous/alcohol trigger etc available? If you install the duaghterboard, will you still be able to make it flashable?

[ShelGame]

So currently, the LM does not have the staging limiter, nitrous/alcohol trigger etc available? If you install the duaghterboard, will you still be able to make it flashable?

It has a staging limiter, but it's not a spark-cut. I'm trying to add it to the current T-LM code. But, I think I'm going to have to take away some RAM storage from current values to do it. I need at least 3 bytes of RAM, and basically everything is being used.

I think Alky Inj is still in there, that may get axed to allow the spark-cut to work.

The daughterboard for sure would be flashable. It would basically work like a '89 SMEC with double the RAM; and flash the same way the '91 SBEC's do using the USB-SCI cable that I make with the bootstrap wire and MP Tune.

[roachjuice]

i dont know if its been asked before but would it be easy/cheap to make a spark cut staging limiter seperatly from the lm?

[ShelGame]

i dont know if its been asked before but would it be easy/cheap to make a spark cut staging limiter seperatly from the lm?

Not sure how you mean?

[wowzer]

with the extra ram in that chip it would be interesting to see if there would be a way to do real time table updating similar to the ostrich. perhaps a routine or 2 to copy a table into ram and temporarily use that instead of the "real" one for testing/tweaking.

[zin]

Built -in tuning "on the fly"?.. that would sell me on the supper!

Mike