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Thread: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Neon?)

  1. #1
    Mitsu booster
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    Neon rear disc caliper brackets on a 1992 Duster! (Now with 100% more pictures!)

    Hello, first time poster with a simple but frustrating problem.

    I am building a 1992 Plymouth Sundance Duster for Lemons racing duty and am hitting a small bump in the road. The plan was to originally replace the rear drums with the 11" rear discs. However, I cannot for the life of me get a junk yard to either locate or send me the correct parts and will therefore accept ANY rear disc conversion at this point.

    The first junk yard shipped me a box a drums brakes and the second junk yard shipped me a completely bare axle. After $100+ lost in misc shipping charges, I'm right back at where I started...

    It looks like all the of the pieces for the rear brakes can be bought from RockAuto or wherever... except for this magical and mysterious backing plate. I'm really hoping that there is a simple and easily solution that I have completely overlooked.

    What about the first gen. Neons with rear brakes? Are those backing plates compatible with an AA-body rear axle? I saw a few pictures online and that bolt pattern looks really familiar, but I'm hesitant to order even more parts that may or may not work. Although, first gen Neons are a lot easier to fin in junk yards.

    Any help is appreciated as we are trying to get this car (3.0L V6 / 5 speed) ready for our first race in min April.

    Thanks,
    -Andy
    Last edited by Bayley; 03-18-2013 at 09:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    If you do a search for Rbryant's posts, you'll see pretty extensive discussions on this stuff, and I know they discussed the Neon stuff as a source of conversion parts as they will work.

    Sounds like you might not be asking for the part in the language they understand...

    First, don't give them the make and model of what it's going on, rather what it would be coming off of, say a 90s Daytona IROC. As it is, the only part you can't get new/rebuilt would be the caliper mounts/backing plate. There are a number of different combinations and iterations the rear discs came in/on, another example would be the LeBaron GTS.

    Lots of good info in those threads!

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
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  3. #3
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    I suppose I was looking for the smoking gun post: "Yes, Neon rear backing plate is identical! Here are a couple pictures of them side-by-side!" Although, I suppose if somebody had a Daytona backing plate that they could compare against... they probably wouldn't have needed to search out a Neon backing plate.

    Thanks for the member lead. I've been searching through posts and figured that the Neon rear backing plate / caliper bracket "should" work. There are lot more junked Neons around Detroit than old K-based cars with discs. I also found the Chrysler part numbers, as they still provide new replacement parts:

    Left - 4728111
    Right - 47281120

    Although, my local stealership quoted $157 each.

    That's a tough pill to swallow when my entire "race" car is supposed to be worth $500 or less. (24hoursoflemons.com)

    Thanks again,
    -Andy

  4. #4
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    Where are you located? Out here in Maryland, we have a bunch of junkyards that typically have a ton of Neons, you pay a dollar to get in, pull the parts, pocket all of the bolts and clips, and pay a cheap price for the parts.

  5. #5
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    We have plenty of those yards in Detroit too, but most won't let me take my 18 month old son into the yard with me. I'm still gonna try hitting up "Parts Galore" off the legendary 8-mile this weekend with the boy. I'll probably strap him on my chest ala "The Hangover" style. That always seems to get some amusing looks.

  6. #6
    turbo addict
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    On another note, can you bolt our 11 in brakes to a neon like you can the front?
    Ian Adams

    Function>Form

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    scrapped, too rusty

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    Daily beater with built-ish ​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

  7. #7
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    UPDATE: I was able to grab a pair of rear caliper brackets off a 2002 Neon (trim model unknown). They do fit, but there was a little "persuasion" that needed to be done. The outer diameter of the Neon stub axle is ~1/4 of an inch smaller than the stub axle from our 1992 Plymouth Sundance. This meant the Neon's caliper bracket wouldn't fit over the Sundance axle. Also, the Neon's stub axle is integrated into the rear spindle'ish assembly and could therefore not be used on the A-body.

    No problems though, the Neon bracket had a flared hole for the stub axle and the larger diameter of the flared hole matched the Sundance's axle. I took a grinding wheel and opened up the hole to match the outer flare diameter all the way through. And just like that, the Sundance sutb axle fits perfectly fine!

    The only other problem I ran into was that the casting on the bracket for the parking brake slightly interfered with the rectangular flange on the axle itself. This was easily remedied by simply grinding down some of the corners on the flange.

    So now we have four wheel disc brakes. Time to go racing!

  8. #8
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    Good to hear it worked out!

    Love the improvisational skillz! Some pictures would be nice though ....

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
    - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    Quote Originally Posted by zin View Post
    Good to hear it worked out!

    Love the improvisational skillz! Some pictures would be nice though ....

    Mike
    I agree, I've been wanting to use Neon brakes but haven't seen any pictures or anything.

  10. #10
    Basic Vendor (MSD, Hawk, etc) Turbo Mopar Vendor rbryant's Avatar
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayley View Post
    UPDATE: I was able to grab a pair of rear caliper brackets off a 2002 Neon (trim model unknown). They do fit, but there was a little "persuasion" that needed to be done. The outer diameter of the Neon stub axle is ~1/4 of an inch smaller than the stub axle from our 1992 Plymouth Sundance. This meant the Neon's caliper bracket wouldn't fit over the Sundance axle. Also, the Neon's stub axle is integrated into the rear spindle'ish assembly and could therefore not be used on the A-body.

    No problems though, the Neon bracket had a flared hole for the stub axle and the larger diameter of the flared hole matched the Sundance's axle. I took a grinding wheel and opened up the hole to match the outer flare diameter all the way through. And just like that, the Sundance sutb axle fits perfectly fine!

    The only other problem I ran into was that the casting on the bracket for the parking brake slightly interfered with the rectangular flange on the axle itself. This was easily remedied by simply grinding down some of the corners on the flange.

    So now we have four wheel disc brakes. Time to go racing!
    Did you use Neon rotors or the 89-94 rotors?

    The Neon rotors are a bit taller and I found that they only worked when you use rear drum hubs, with the 89-94 backing plates. The 89-94 disc hubs didn't offset outward enough for the neon rotors. It is actually handy that the drum hubs work with Neon rotors given that many people are starting with rear drums hubs anyway.

    I nearly went down your path but then I discovered that the '89-94 backing plates are slightly lighter and I liked the cast plate rather than the stamped steel dust shield on the Neon.

    I think the slight grinding on the axle is no big deal and I agree that the best axle stub solution is to enlarge the neon axle stub hole in the plate.I didn't actually go that far with the project because I had lots of 89-94 backing plates available in the Arizona junkyards. I would be interested to see how much material is left and how the spacing works out if you have pictures.

    I actually bought some PT axle stubs (which aren't integrated) thinking that they would bolt on and not require changes to the neon backing plate but their bolt pattern is different than the Neon/Kcar/Lbody. I could have ovaled out the holes but I decided not to bother with it.

    BTW: If you need more rear brake just upgrade your calipers to intrepid/concorde versions which are bolt on (no need for the heavy 11" rear brakes).

    Good job, take some picutures and we can add them to my KC article.

    -Rich

  11. #11
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    one question, what prop valve are you using?

  12. #12
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    I grabbed Neon rotors for the back. They seem to initially fit just fine with the rear drum stub axle / hub. I remember reading about fitment issues with the rear disc hub from 89-94 cars, so I'm glad I didn't toss out my original drum hubs.

    Sorry for the lack of pictures, they are coming soon. I had a mild heart attack yesterday when I tried to install my "Neon" rear calipers and learned that the calipers were waaay to big. I quickly recognized that these calipers looked very similar to the same ones I have on my Ford Super Duty. Sure enough: "FoMoCo" was cast right there in the side of the caliper. Jeesh, matching these parts is hard enough already... I don't need any extra help Mr. O'Reilly parts counter guy!

    I'll see if I can get around to taking pictures over the weekend. We'll be going gang-busters on the cage installation all weekend, so there should plenty of breaks for photo opportunities. It also helps that my garage is officially race headquarters... both a blessing and a curse in reality.

    Regarding the proportioning valve, we've acquired an El-Cheapo(tm) Summit Racing adjustable valve that will be mounted behind the shifter inside the car. We re-arranged the master cylinder to split the two pistons to front / back rather than opposing corners. I'm not joking when I said we had this car stripped down to nothing a few weeks ago. It's exciting to see pieces getting put back together again. Cage should be close to done by Sunday and then the motor will hopefully go back in next week.

    First race is April 20/21 and we are trying to make an open track day on the 13th and / or 14th for some of the greener guys on the team. Wish us luck, we all that we can get.

  13. #13
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    I only had a couple minutes free this weekend, but I was still able to snap a couple quick pictures of the rear setup so far. Calipers should arrive this evening, so I'm hoping to button this up with finishing up the cage. Please let me know if there is anything specific anybody wants to otherwise see.

    2002 Dodge Neon rear brake caliber bracket, with splash guard / parking brake assembly removed



    Parking brake cable casting interference with hub flange on axle


    Neon Rotor on '92 Sundance drum brake sub axle (hub)


    EDIT: Holy busted image loader. Sorry for all the edits.

  14. #14
    Basic Vendor (MSD, Hawk, etc) Turbo Mopar Vendor rbryant's Avatar
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    I actually like those better than the 1G neon backing plates I was playing with. The fully cast plate is nicer than the 1G which uses stamped steel dust sheilds as part of the parking drum retainer.

    If you ever pull the hub off I would be interested to see a picture of the machining required to make the axle stub fit through it.

    Great job!

    -Rich

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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    I know you ditched the parking brake mechanism, but did it look as if it was easily adaptable?

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    From the looks of things, it would appear that the parking brake would be easy enough to install/use, once the cable connections were worked out... But maybe Rich or the OP can clarify?

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
    - Edmund Burke

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    Basic Vendor (MSD, Hawk, etc) Turbo Mopar Vendor rbryant's Avatar
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    Quote Originally Posted by zin View Post
    From the looks of things, it would appear that the parking brake would be easy enough to install/use, once the cable connections were worked out... But maybe Rich or the OP can clarify?

    Mike
    They should work fine as long as the cables are long enough (the connections should be the same as even the shoes are the same)! I can't even remember where the cable goes into the backing plates on the 89-94 ones relative to the neon ones.

    At any rate this sure makes finding non vented rear discs easy!

    -Rich

  18. #18
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    I'd like to try the Neon parking brake eventually. The OE Sundance parking brake cable was all kinds of sketchy engineering. I have no idea what the Neon parking brake cables look like, but I'm ~100% sure that it's a better design than what I just took off.

    It would be nice to switch to a hand brake while I'm at it.

  19. #19
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    After 4 races on a Lemons Shadow the rear drums have worked great. I resurfaced the drums and put "gold" level parts store semi-metallic shoes on. These cars don't have much weight over the rear and the factory prop. valve doesn't give much rear bias. I still have 1/2 of the shoes left after 4 races, adjust them after every day of racing when you bleed the brakes.
    I even read that guys racing Neons in SCCA were putting drums an their ACR's because it was 11lbs a wheel lighter, not that it matters for Lemons.
    Focus your efforts on the front. 10" fronts will not last a whole day of racing much less a weekend. At least do 11", I built custom brackets to run Audi TT rotor that are 12.5". I can get 2 races out of front pads and brake as late as any car on the track. Remember you are limited by 200tw tires, so huge brakes just make it that much easier to lock up and flat spot the tires.

  20. #20
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    Re: Need to locate rear disc caliper bracket for 1992 Duster! (Can I use a 1st gen Ne

    We raced our 1996 Celica with rear drums for 4 races. Just like your experience, we barely used the rear brakes. We didn't replace the shoes until after the third race, and they still looked fine.

    However, we were chewing up a set of EBC yellows each DAY. We eventually swapped the rear drums for discs (and matching prop. valve) and can now easily get an entire race out of one set of pads. Granted, we are consuming a complete set of rear pads as well, but we can now make an entire weekend on one set of pads.

    Interested to see what you did for the front brakes. Are you still running the 60mm calipers? We went with the Shelby Daytona setup (11" vented / 60mm caliper / 24mm master) and 2002 Neon rear setup with adjustable prop./ valve. We're trying to make the 3-balls track day on April 14th, but will otherwise be at Gingerman bright and early Friday morning on the 19th. We'll have the bright pink pop-up tent aka the "Pepto-Bismo Palace". You can't miss us.

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