old school TBI engine build

[tryingbe]

There is another guy running a turbo daytona in the lemons race. He posted his findings on the project section of the "other" web site. It is a good read. The major issues they faced were heat related.

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...s-learned.html

[RoadWarrior222]

Heh, soon as I saw which nose it was I was thinking "He shoulda outghta cut holes in that" ... which he did eventually.


Yer general problem with buying a cheap POS applies... it's cheap because it's a POS... good finds are "last straw" cars... as in "I replaced the exhaust, the alternator the PS pump, the shocks, the struts, the brakes, the alternator, the O2 sensor, the plugs, the wires, the coil, the fuel pump, the waterpump, the radiator... and now it needs a new battery AND IT'S THE LAST STRAW, I'm done with this POS, first $300 takes it..." so I'll turn up with my $300 in hand, trying not to laugh.

[Reaper1]

Oh boy....I shouldn't stick my nose in that thread....mustn't intervene...can't.....ugghhh....I'll probably end up posting on it.

[anarchyjet]

As someone who races a 2.2 in LeMons my best advice is...Don't Do It. These motors are not very reliable for endurance racing. If you are hell bent on running one staying NA is the best thing, but slow. Take the advice about a good stock 2.5, but a NA 2.4 conversion would be hella sweet.
The number one thing a LeMons car needs in a big a$$ oil cooler. Then baffle the pan and add an accusump. Take the 20 penalty laps on a $200 accusump it will be worth it. Run 5w50 synthetic oil with Lucas oil stabilizer. After that it is good brakes and handling. Even really slow cars that can stay on the track for 15 hours will finish in the top 20% of the field.

[Reaper1]

I can't take it anymore! LOL

I know these engines are built on a limited budget, however, there is NO WAY a fresh bearinged and ringed 2.2 OR 2.5, N/A with a decent, well thought out plan for cooling and oiling should have reliability issues!

With the addition of a turbo, I can see where the reliability can go down, but I still believe that the engine should survive!!

I'm fairly certain Chrysler set some sort of record with a G-body in the early 80's for sustained speed or something. The car was bone stock...with all the plastic vacuum tubing and everything in that heat.

Maybe I have too much faith in our engines, but I've witnessed them do some pretty astonishing acts of surviving severe abuse.

[Vigo]

Lots of stock cars have cooling issues in endurance racing situations. If you add a car that had 1/3rd of its radiator removed to make room for more turbo boost, that only compounds the problem. As mentioned, the big problem is oil temperature. You can be hoofing right along looking at only mildly elevated coolant temps, thinking everything is ok, and spin all the bearings because you didnt know your oil temp was 386 degrees and it's not doing its job anymore. It doesnt help that the vast majority of these engines that have not been rebuilt are 'loose' engines by modern standards. Lose a little viscosity from an already too-light oil and it goes to ---- quickly.

IIRC, Best Motoring has run a couple of episodes where they took stock vehicles on a road course and forced drivers to slow down when their oil temp went over a certain point. You might be surprised how susceptible even the most overtly sporting and modern vehicles can be to heat buildup.


I agree with anarchyjets main 3 recommendations: oil cooler, baffled pan, and accusump.

As far as slow cars in lemons, there is a TBI caravan that seems to do pretty well. Of course, it is 5spd. 5spd add a ton of performance to n/a 2.2/2.5s and remove a lot of failure points relative to the automatic.

[bamman]

Just wanted to add that in a LeMons race you cannot run coolant, you have to run 100% water. I don't think anyone mentioned that.

[wallace]

As someone who races a 2.2 in LeMons my best advice is...Don't Do It. These motors are not very reliable for endurance racing. If you are hell bent on running one staying NA is the best thing, but slow. Take the advice about a good stock 2.5, but a NA 2.4 conversion would be hella sweet.
The number one thing a LeMons car needs in a big a$$ oil cooler. Then baffle the pan and add an accusump. Take the 20 penalty laps on a $200 accusump it will be worth it. Run 5w50 synthetic oil with Lucas oil stabilizer. After that it is good brakes and handling. Even really slow cars that can stay on the track for 15 hours will finish in the top 20% of the field.

Could you tell us which cars did do well in the race?

[RoadWarrior222]

http://jalopnik.com/5450420/results-...le-500-beaters

[Vigo]

I had a 78 Volvo 240. It definitely gave the impression of being unbreakable.

But, a tbi k-car is up there on that front.. The only things that will generally break on a TBI cost $20 and take half an hour or less to fix.

[Tbird232ci]

Have you thought about making a heat extractor style hood? It can be done on the cheap if you're able to weld, and have a spare hood or fender to use for a little bit of sheet metal. Something like this guy did:





Now obviously you don't need to make a cowl hood, but the extractors themselves would be pretty simple, and if you can bend them down a good bit to intercept a decent bit of flow from the radiator, or even make a bit of an extension, you can reduce the temps a good bit.

Something else helpful is blocking off any air path around the radiator. I've seen many people remove the plastic shrouding from around radiators, cut open huge holes, and never do anything to block the air from getting around the radiator. Air is going to travel the path of least resistance. You want that path to be the radiator. Block all of the openings and holes up in the radiator support the best you can with something like aluminum flashing, ABS plastic, or hell, maybe even truck mudflaps.

Also, make a lower radiator air dam that's wider, lower, rigid, and with a little more of an aggressive angle. Scoop that air up, and with the shrouding around the radiator, it doesn't have much choice but to go through the radiator, then out of the hood.

And something for fun...SPEED HOLES

[Vigo]

Thats a cool honda!

[anarchyjet]

Could you tell us which cars did do well in the race?

http://www.therustyhub.com/2013/01/c...ng-lemons.html

Much more recent article with what type of car does well in LeMons. Basically if your car can last the whole race and turn lap times within the top 25% of the field it can win. Then it is all about running an efficient race. 2+ hour stints, fast pit stops and no off track time for bad driving will get you a win. I don't think the car with the fastest single lap has ever won the event.

If you ever go to one of these events, there is always 20 different races within the race. Sometimes the battle for 53rd place is the most exciting thing going on because it is between a car that looks like Mr. T, a VW bug and a Maserati biturbo running on 5 cylinders.

Did someone say speed holes?



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[Vigo]

As a neon owner i will say it is nice to see the Neon has as many wins as the civic and integra put together.. (disregard the obvious crx entry.. but i also own a crx so whatevs).

[RoadWarrior222]

As an Escort owner I will say "Jeeze guys at least put the HO header and a taurus throttle body on it, lose 500lb and stick a wagon swaybar on the back and you might be able to outrun the Geo Metros and outcorner the S10s"

(Actually with wagon swaybar on a hatch, and 205 or wider tires, they should pull 0.9 G cornering... My wagon? Well I can be brave twice, after that the bruises on my cheekbone from faceplanting the side window are too painful to want to do it a third time. Oh and it was really like it was on rails on those BMW bottlecaps, but they gave it about 2 inches more wingspan.)