4th cylinder coolant mod **KIT**

[acannell]

Pm sent!

Responded!

[Khajjathefang]

On the way, lol

[karlak]

will have to check this when I get home.

[The Pope]

For anyone who requests it, I can modify the kit to have a different length of hose or to change the style of the fittings, i.e. to straight fittings or one with a hose barb. This can make it possible to connect to the water pump housing or the heater hose as the Pope describes. I haven't attempted those styles though, so you will have to tell me what you need. If its just changing a fitting there should be no cost.

Just sell a 90 degree fitting with hose barb for 5/8" hose with it and the bolt setup. Then add the plug for the head the origanal heater uses, I believe it is 1/2" NPT? Then you just run a new hose or your old hose if it reaches to the head. Easy. Gets rid of that pipe at the oil block and cleans up the front of the engine too.

On the part I've got with just a little smaller groove for the O ring, but other than that the way mine is perfect thanks!

[acannell]

Just sell a 90 degree fitting with hose barb for 5/8" hose with it and the bolt setup. Then add the plug for the head the origanal heater uses, I believe it is 1/2" NPT? Then you just run a new hose or your old hose if it reaches to the head. Easy. Gets rid of that pipe at the oil block and cleans up the front of the engine too.

On the part I've got with just a little smaller groove for the O ring, but other than that the way mine is perfect thanks!

Great idea! I'll buy a couple fittings to make a kit like that. If anyone wants the kit Pope describes here, "The heater hose version", let me know. I think I can do it for the same price, but I'll confirm that if anyone asks.

I'm no professional oring gland designer, but the groove dimensions for the oring come from standard tables for this type of seal. The idea from the parker oring handbook is that the OD of the groove should be very close to the OD of the oring if the pressure is internal on a face seal, to minimize movement of the oring. The groove is then set to 0.139" width, to allow for the oring to expand under compression, and things like swell.

I'm glad you like your kit Pope! Let us know how it goes! Your feedback helps make it better.

[wheming]

Can we step back just a quick minute and explain what issues or failures this kit is meant to guard against?
I understand you stated there is a lack of cooling flow? This is a dead spot? Is it on both the 782 and 287 castings?
Is there a history of failure due to hot spot in this area? Does the problem present itself at certain HP level?

To be clear, I think this kit shows some great forethought and enginuity. I hope this doesn'y sound like bashing. Just trying to understand better since I've been out of the loop a while. But I'm thinking of doing this if it is useful for my goals.
I think eliminating the heater hose fitting at the t-stat housing is a good idea and should create significant flow in that area. But is there a need to have that p-trap? The hardpipe for the heater hose has that u bend in it creating a trap.

Thanks for entertaining some discussion.

[acannell]

Can we step back just a quick minute and explain what issues or failures this kit is meant to guard against?
I understand you stated there is a lack of cooling flow? This is a dead spot? Is it on both the 782 and 287 castings?
Is there a history of failure due to hot spot in this area? Does the problem present itself at certain HP level?

To be clear, I think this kit shows some great forethought and enginuity. I hope this doesn'y sound like bashing. Just trying to understand better since I've been out of the loop a while. But I'm thinking of doing this if it is useful for my goals.
I think eliminating the heater hose fitting at the t-stat housing is a good idea and should create significant flow in that area. But is there a need to have that p-trap? The hardpipe for the heater hose has that u bend in it creating a trap.

Thanks for entertaining some discussion.

The more discussion the better! Discussion leads to improvement, and more ideas. Credit for the idea as a product goes to GLHS60 on the other forum, at least thats why I made it. Credit for the idea _in general_ as far as relocating or bypassing head flow to the #4 side of the head goes back to who knows..its on Gary Donovans website still, and thats from 1999? 2000? He did it on his reliant way back then, and people talk about it frequently on the forums. To me, the idea makes sense, for two main reasons:

-With the tstat housing between 3 and 4, coolant has a less than ideal path when it comes to cooling cylinder #4. Its flow is interrupted when it hits the end of the head, and it has to change direction. So it makes sense to me that hot spots would develop.

-Other vehicles with similar engine layouts have this "modification" stock. Someone on the other forum posted pics of a VW engine where it looks almost identical to ours, and it has a bypass hose coming off the head in the same spot as this mod. So they must have known something about this, right?

As far as when this starts to matter, i.e. horsepower or boost levels, I think thats a more complicated question because it depends on how detonation prone your entire engine is. Its just one more tool in the box, I think, to keep detonation under control. Someone else might know more about that than me.

I'm not sure about the p-trap..thats an interesting question. Are we sure that bend isn't there for some physical constraint reason, i.e. spark plug access, or making it possible to remove/install it or access bolts or something?

[acannell]

Wait a second..I think the P trap is there simply because thats the minimum radius the pipe can be bent in order to have a 90 degree elbow..

[wheming]

Some VW's had a small electric circ pump that would come on after engine shutdown to circulate water around the head. I know my buddy's old Gen3 jetta vr6 did.

I can't believe i never heard all this hub-bub before about that mod. But if Gary knew all about it that many years ago, I'm sure there was sound reasoning and testing.

Although I don't know for certain, there must be some good reason for that trap type shape of that tubing. Afterall, that is probably a couple cents worth of additional tubing where they could simply have had a 90° bend if not for some reason.

[Khajjathefang]

The more discussion the better! Discussion leads to improvement, and more ideas. Credit for the idea as a product goes to GLHS60 on the other forum, at least thats why I made it. Credit for the idea _in general_ as far as relocating or bypassing head flow to the #4 side of the head goes back to who knows..its on Gary Donovans website still, and thats from 1999? 2000? He did it on his reliant way back then, and people talk about it frequently on the forums. To me, the idea makes sense, for two main reasons:

-With the tstat housing between 3 and 4, coolant has a less than ideal path when it comes to cooling cylinder #4. Its flow is interrupted when it hits the end of the head, and it has to change direction. So it makes sense to me that hot spots would develop.

-Other vehicles with similar engine layouts have this "modification" stock. Someone on the other forum posted pics of a VW engine where it looks almost identical to ours, and it has a bypass hose coming off the head in the same spot as this mod. So they must have known something about this, right?

As far as when this starts to matter, i.e. horsepower or boost levels, I think thats a more complicated question because it depends on how detonation prone your entire engine is. Its just one more tool in the box, I think, to keep detonation under control. Someone else might know more about that than me.

I'm not sure about the p-trap..thats an interesting question. Are we sure that bend isn't there for some physical constraint reason, i.e. spark plug access, or making it possible to remove/install it or access bolts or something?

If i recall correctly Joe O'conner did it first on his Daytona and at the time it was said to be required at the 400 hp and above level. In more recent times it has been suggested as being beneficial in the 300 and below ranges. At this price point everyone ought to consider this kit if they intend to go beyond stock...

[thedon809]

Some VW's had a small electric circ pump that would come on after engine shutdown to circulate water around the head. I know my buddy's old Gen3 jetta vr6 did.

I can't believe i never heard all this hub-bub before about that mod. But if Gary knew all about it that many years ago, I'm sure there was sound reasoning and testing.

Although I don't know for certain, there must be some good reason for that trap type shape of that tubing. Afterall, that is probably a couple cents worth of additional tubing where they could simply have had a 90° bend if not for some reason.

dart with 1.4 turbo has a small pump.

[black86glhs]

The P-trap in the heater hose I believe is just there for fitment. Since it comes out of the bottom of the t-stat location, they just did that so it would clear everything up front and allow for a smooth bent pipe.

[acannell]

Updated with new heater hose version!

There is now a heater hose version! It comes with a brass 5/8 hose to 3/8 npt fitting, and 3/4" galvanized steel plug. It requires removal of the very large fitting and tube on the bottom of the thermostat housing in order to install the plug. The heater hose that normally gets connected to the thermostat housing gets connected to the freeze plug instead. I have not personally installed this version so please make sure the parts in the kit will do the job! The heater hose version is only $50 shipped!

[chilort]

I didn't even have to tell my engine builder what these parts were for:


Untitled by chilort, on Flickr

[acannell]

I didn't even have to tell my engine builder what these parts were for:

Hahah cool!! Thats the first pic I've seen of it installed on someone elses engine! Let me know how it goes!!

[chilort]

Hahah cool!! Thats the first pic I've seen of it installed on someone elses engine! Let me know how it goes!!

Waiting on parts so it'll be a bit yet. But I will let you know

[Khajjathefang]

Got mine yesterday! Looks good. Think I'm going to wait until i get the menegon head to mount it though.

[acannell]

Special scratch and dent deal! Get just the freeze plug adapter w/oring for $20 shipped!

While I was learning to machine these parts, I screwed up a couple times. I have two adapter plates with defects in the rim of the oring seal. I don't think these defects will affect sealing because they are not on the part of the groove which forms the face seal.

So the deal is for one adapter with defect, and an oring, shipped. It doesn't come with bolts, washers, fittings, or hose.
See the picture for the defect!

[acannell]

Ive now installed the heater version and made a few runs with it. Everything seems okay!

[speedfreek500]

Thanks, Got mine today! looks great. I wont be installing it till the new FM head goes on in the spring.

Thanks Brian