Ideas/Help - '92 Lebaron 3.0 V6 Convt Turbo Build

[shayne]

i agree that an gt35r is a bit much for a goal of 300bhp. i think if you looked at some other builds you would see that a couple of holsets do the job nicely and can be had in good useable shape for the cost of a knock-off chinese turbo and will likely last longer. i know that the hx-35's compressor map matched up very well with an average 3.0l v6 up to about 450bhp.
the turbo flange is entirely changeable, i am running a t4 flange because its what came on my turbo from shadow, and likely its what i'll stay with when i upgrade to a larger turbo. i have nothing bad to say about anyone elses turbo setup's, mine and ed's are totally different beasts and are catered to different demands, so comparing is kind of a moot point, and yes, a manifold like mine and an equal length version do flow more efficiently and will result in a greater ability to make power, thats why you dont often see log manifolds in the top of any big motorsports competitions unless mandated too. there have been many tests that compare a log to unequal length, to an equal length, and the tubular manifolds always win out, admittedly the equal length is always the most efficient. (i wanted to make mine equal length but i had problems packaging such a manifold in my engine bay) its true that they are more expensive but they wont be made of unobtainium, i just got to sit down and properly figure out where you can have a fair price.
i made a ss 3" exhaust all the way back, with the way i tucked the back manifold in against the block i got room for a 4" plus downpipe for down the road. i made my own exhaust, but there are vendors that make some real nice setup's for a great price.

[turbovanman²]

I am guessing a knock off. Seems alright, but you can never tell with eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271009045313?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p398 4.m1423.l2649

or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330629214479...84.m1423.l2649

Yep, both knock off's but the Chinese have got their quality better in the last few years.

Can this manifold setup be used with a T3 flange instead of T4? Or will the HE341 fit on a T4 flange? A buddy of mine suggests finding a bit smaller turbo than the GT35R, seeing as they dont give any real power until after 10psi. Since its all I want to run, not really any more, he said a bit smaller turbo will help with faster spooling and faster power increase. And sthe HE341 is very close to a 50 trim, not a 60 trim, thought it mite b better. But since the flange is a T4, idk if the smaller turbo will fit.

Now he is a Honda guy, not Mopar. So if his advice does no good here, please let me know and I will continue with my current plan.

If you go with us, we can use any flange you want, so pick the turbo and we'll build to suit.

Your buddy is wrong, the turbo makes power based on the engine size, cylinders, flow etc, so yeah, on a Honda it won't make much power at 10 psi but on a big V6, yes, it will make power. The Holset 341 is a good turbo but the prices have skyrocketed in the last year as everyone wants these. The HX35 is close in size, I actually have a few of those for sale.

i just got to sit down and properly figure out where you can have a fair price.

So hurry up already, get off the computer and make up a price and get your car running,

[RoadWarrior222]

Yah, 3L vs 2L it'll make power at 2/3 of the RPM of the Honda.

[shayne]

yes and no, most honda heads flow a suprisingly large amount of air, and that really can change that theory, but it is a good baseline to think from. it all has to do with how much air the motor moves, but considering a 3l has up to 1.4l more displacement that the smallest worthy honda motor its a safe bet a 3l will make a bunch more power, sometimes there is no replacement for displacement. and no you would never find a gt35 on a honda running 10 psi, why have chicken when you can have steak 30psi ftw.

[turbovanman²]

yes and no, most honda heads flow a suprisingly large amount of air, and that really can change that theory, but it is a good baseline to think from.

They can flow but most make power on lots of boost, you won't find too many fast Honda's running 10 psi on a big turbo.

[NeverLow]

If you go with us, we can use any flange you want, so pick the turbo and we'll build to suit.

The HX35 is close in size, I actually have a few of those for sale.

I am going to be going with you guys for my manifold and downpipe. Most likely it will b a t3 set up for the H341. What are the spec differences with that and the HX35? Also, what condition are you HX35 in and how much are they?

[NeverLow]

i agree that an gt35r is a bit much for a goal of 300bhp. i think if you looked at some other builds you would see that a couple of holsets do the job nicely and can be had in good useable shape for the cost of a knock-off chinese turbo and will likely last longer. i know that the hx-35's compressor map matched up very well with an average 3.0l v6 up to about 450bhp.
the turbo flange is entirely changeable, i am running a t4 flange because its what came on my turbo from shadow, and likely its what i'll stay with when i upgrade to a larger turbo. i have nothing bad to say about anyone elses turbo setup's, mine and ed's are totally different beasts and are catered to different demands, so comparing is kind of a moot point, and yes, a manifold like mine and an equal length version do flow more efficiently and will result in a greater ability to make power, thats why you dont often see log manifolds in the top of any big motorsports competitions unless mandated too. there have been many tests that compare a log to unequal length, to an equal length, and the tubular manifolds always win out, admittedly the equal length is always the most efficient. (i wanted to make mine equal length but i had problems packaging such a manifold in my engine bay) its true that they are more expensive but they wont be made of unobtainium, i just got to sit down and properly figure out where you can have a fair price.
i made a ss 3" exhaust all the way back, with the way i tucked the back manifold in against the block i got room for a 4" plus downpipe for down the road. i made my own exhaust, but there are vendors that make some real nice setup's for a great price.

I am thinkin i am going to use FWD cat back piping, your manifold & downpipe (which i wana do 3"), and a flat black vibrant sleeper muffler to keep the noise down from that 3".

[turbovanman²]

I am going to be going with you guys for my manifold and downpipe. Most likely it will b a t3 set up for the H341. What are the spec differences with that and the HX35? Also, what condition are you HX35 in and how much are they?

The HE341/351/hx35 are all pretty close in size, just trying to get the specs, the KC article is down. I want $250 for the turbo, its complete and in good shape.

[NeverLow]

The HE341/351/hx35 are all pretty close in size, just trying to get the specs, the KC article is down. I want $250 for the turbo, its complete and in good shape.

I found the hx35 is is closer to the 341 then the 351, because it has the 56mm like the 341.

Can you send me pics of the turbo? And is it ready to go in and take 10psi?

[3.0LeBaron]

Not stupid, the biggest problem is controlling it, we are working on it, but until we figure it out, the only auto option is the 3 speed, highway rpm sucks but with a V6, you can gear it low due to the nice down low torque, so that helps, plus if you use LU, then that's even better.

yeah that is how i found this site found the thread about programming the controller and getting the data from it then it sort of just ended before any real progess

[NeverLow]

yeah that is how i found this site found the thread about programming the controller and getting the data from it then it sort of just ended before any real progess

Yeah, thats wat i saw too. Thats y i decided to go with the 5spd set up

[turbovanman²]

yeah that is how i found this site found the thread about programming the controller and getting the data from it then it sort of just ended before any real progess

We are in limbo until someone can break the code,

---------- Post added at 12:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 AM ----------

I found the hx35 is is closer to the 341 then the 351, because it has the 56mm like the 341.

Can you send me pics of the turbo? And is it ready to go in and take 10psi?

I'll get pics on Tuesday. The article we had with all the specs is lost, but IIRC, the 35 is almost the same as the 351 but has a larger a/r turbine housing, perfect for a V6.

[NeverLow]

I'll get pics on Tuesday. The article we had with all the specs is lost, but IIRC, the 35 is almost the same as the 351 but has a larger a/r turbine housing, perfect for a V6.

Sweet. I am def excited to get this started. Im thinkin ima get the hx35, custom manifold, and downpipe from u and shayne. Hopin we can do bundle pricing. Cant wait to get this started!

[Sundance 6g72]

op. with ms3 and all the money going into the motor, shoot for some bigger injectors than the 3800. brand new, it will be worth it.

do you have e85 in your area? i just hit 315whp on 15psi with stock cams. my throttle body is also smaller than your choice plus your header will perform better than my front and rear log. you should be able to do 300+whp on 10 psi with a hx35.


3sx has nice bearing options and if you go with a new crank, try to get a stock forged unit. i am also the 2nd person i know of to run 1g dsm headbolts to secure my crank girdle in.

with ms3 and e85, you can do well over 300whp and be safe. especially with forged pistons. even 93 octane would do but we dont have knock senspors so with 93 you have to take more precausion.

if you neeed timing and fuel maps, pm me. im sure i can get you a decent base tune.

you might wanrt to look into slicks

[NeverLow]

op. with ms3 and all the money going into the motor, shoot for some bigger injectors than the 3800. brand new, it will be worth it.

do you have e85 in your area? i just hit 315whp on 15psi with stock cams. my throttle body is also smaller than your choice plus your header will perform better than my front and rear log. you should be able to do 300+whp on 10 psi with a hx35.


3sx has nice bearing options and if you go with a new crank, try to get a stock forged unit. i am also the 2nd person i know of to run 1g dsm headbolts to secure my crank girdle in.

with ms3 and e85, you can do well over 300whp and be safe. especially with forged pistons. even 93 octane would do but we dont have knock senspors so with 93 you have to take more precausion.

if you neeed timing and fuel maps, pm me. im sure i can get you a decent base tune.

you might wanrt to look into slicks

So MS3X is the way to go? Thats what I was thinking was going to happen. I talked to boost button.com, but they wont even be able to start mapping until Feb 2013. So MS3X was what I was going to go with. Do you know if it runs with MAC OSX? Or do I have to do parallel OS' to run it?

What injectors would you suggest? Was going to go brand new, just was going to use the same ones out of the 3800 supercharged. And what is e85?

What bearings would you suggest for this set up? And who does a good stock forged unit for the crank?

Im def gona stick w/ARP for all main bolts. I have a lot of buddies w/all diff style cars w/turbo builds, and every1 says ARP is the way to go. There are certain things I won't steer away from, and that is one of them. And not gona worry about slicks, because I am not going to be doing track runs. Maybe a couple when I get it all tuned good, just to have times. But thats not my goal.

Def going to need help with maps and tuning once everything goes in, so that will be much appreciated.

[Sundance 6g72]

ms3 is thw best bang for your buck ems with LOADS of features. talk to diy about setting you up. an ms2 will work too (what i use) at a lower cost.

e85 is ethonol at the pump. basically race gas

i have 46# injtors for sale. they will do 300whp on e85. they should handle 350-400whp on gas just fine. they are maxed at 315whp on e85.e85 needs more fuel to make the same power but its less prone to detination /safer to run without a knock sensor.


i would not trust anyone to tune a 3.0 stock ecu for boost. ever. all our setups are so different. my current tune would make eds and brents cars lean out on the same boost. just that different

im using king bearings for dohc motors in my stock sohc block.

arp headbolts for the 6g72 are overrated. stock headbolts have been proven at over 500whp on a sohc and well over 700awhp on dohc 6g72s

arp rod cap bolts would be nice but i dont think anyone but the big hp dohc cars use them. dsm headbolts held brents crank in just fine at 500whp. arp dsm headbolts used as main girdle bolts would be nuts

whenever your ready to work with megasquirt, lmk and ill help ya out

[NeverLow]

ms3 is thw best bang for your buck ems with LOADS of features. talk to diy about setting you up. an ms2 will work too (what i use) at a lower cost.

e85 is ethonol at the pump. basically race gas

i have 46# injtors for sale. they will do 300whp on e85. they should handle 350-400whp on gas just fine. they are maxed at 315whp on e85.e85 needs more fuel to make the same power but its less prone to detination /safer to run without a knock sensor.


i would not trust anyone to tune a 3.0 stock ecu for boost. ever. all our setups are so different. my current tune would make eds and brents cars lean out on the same boost. just that different

im using king bearings for dohc motors in my stock sohc block.

arp headbolts for the 6g72 are overrated. stock headbolts have been proven at over 500whp on a sohc and well over 700awhp on dohc 6g72s

arp rod cap bolts would be nice but i dont think anyone but the big hp dohc cars use them. dsm headbolts held brents crank in just fine at 500whp. arp dsm headbolts used as main girdle bolts would be nuts

whenever your ready to work with megasquirt, lmk and ill help ya out

So u think ms2 will suffice? I was hoping it would, but not entirely sure.

Dont have an e85 pump anywhere in reasonable difference. But since they will still work fine with premium, how much are your 46# injectors? What brand are they? Are they brand new?

Any good places for the king bearings? Stock forged crank? Stock dsm head bolts?

[Sundance 6g72]

3sx has the bearings on their websight. they also have forged cranks. keep in mind that the forged crank is overkill for 300whp the stocker has seen over 500whp without breaking.

i just pulled the dsm headbolts from the junkyard. any 4g63 before 1995. they dont yeild when torqued so its not a big deal. if i bought new, id go through dsm graveyard for them. they were just a fun cheep mod that has proven to help in the 500-600hp range


the injectors were origonally bought from zzp in michigan and used in a built GTP then sold to me. they should be bosch injectors (what i was told). they are very nice, just time for me to upgrade. if you message me, we can work somthing out

---------- Post added at 02:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 PM ----------

something i just thought of.. the dohc forged crank motors had oil squirters in the crank, or something fancy like that. i would assume its okay to use a forged crank on a sohc block but i dont know anyone who has done it

[NeverLow]

3sx has the bearings on their websight. they also have forged cranks. keep in mind that the forged crank is overkill for 300whp the stocker has seen over 500whp without breaking.

i just pulled the dsm headbolts from the junkyard. any 4g63 before 1995. they dont yeild when torqued so its not a big deal. if i bought new, id go through dsm graveyard for them. they were just a fun cheep mod that has proven to help in the 500-600hp range


the injectors were origonally bought from zzp in michigan and used in a built GTP then sold to me. they should be bosch injectors (what i was told). they are very nice, just time for me to upgrade. if you message me, we can work somthing out

---------- Post added at 02:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 PM ----------

something i just thought of.. the dohc forged crank motors had oil squirters in the crank, or something fancy like that. i would assume its okay to use a forged crank on a sohc block but i dont know anyone who has done it

I will check out 3sx for the bearings, but since its proven that the stock crank will hold, I will save some money and go that route. So I don't really need dam head bolts? can just use the stock ones?

[Sundance 6g72]

correct stock main, rod, and headbolts do fine at over twice the power you want and like 8000-9000 rpm or something rediculous