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Thread: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

  1. #21
    Heroes never die, they just reload! Turbo Mopar Staff Frank's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Quote Originally Posted by rbryant View Post
    The later style cast steel arms will help the ride compared to the stamped arms.

    The cast steel doesn't flex so all of the shock of a bump will transfer directly into the bushing instead of the rest of the suspension.

    The rigidity of the arm was the reason for the change from stamped dual pivot to cast dual pivot. It was aimed at making a more comfortable ride in the heavier cars. A friend of mine knew the designer and had a conversation with him about it.

    -Rich
    But the cast will move my wheels forward, correct?
    Frank Katzenberger
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  2. #22
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Yep, that's where the improvement in the caster comes from, but if you go cast, there's the need to change the knuckles as well... Can't recall right now why that is, ball joints?...

    Mike
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  3. #23
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Quote Originally Posted by zin View Post
    Yep, that's where the improvement in the caster comes from, but if you go cast, there's the need to change the knuckles as well... Can't recall right now why that is, ball joints?...

    Mike
    I don't think you need to change the knuckles. I know you can use the latter knuckle with the earlier arms. It's actually an improvement in geometry from what I've read.

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    Heroes never die, they just reload! Turbo Mopar Staff Frank's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Ehh, I don't want to change the knucles or brakes, etc, etc, etc. I think i will just go for the stamped.
    Frank Katzenberger
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    94 Bronco 302 XLT - Shorty Headers, 3" exhaust, cold air intake, & Soft top



    "... to get the best out of it, you have to go beyond the line. Where bravery becomes insanity. Shall I turn into this hairpin bend at a 100mph? Why not!"



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  5. #25
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    Ehh, I don't want to change the knucles or brakes, etc, etc, etc. I think i will just go for the stamped.
    You aren't living until you've had big brakes with good tires on a car. It's glorious. The stamped arms with later knuckles, 11" brakes and good pads would be sweet.

  6. #26
    turbo addict
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    If you go with stamped, and decide later to go with 11" brakes, they're easy to find on 15" wheel caravans from like 87-1990, same knuckle as the 89/90 Shelby Daytona and Lebaron GTC 11" brakes. You just have to get a small bolt pattern wheel bearing from any 91+ car if you can't find a 89/90 car with 11's.

    11's are nice, I have them on both my cars, The daytona has the D150 MC and my yorker has the stock 11" MC from a daytona ES I parted that came with factory 11's. I like the D150 MC on the 5spd as it modulates easier with all the pedal dancing. The stock 11" MC on the yorker is great for an Auto but when you put on the binders they're on right now! Scared the crap out of my sister in the yorker slamming on the brakes to stop at a red light camera intersection. We went from 40-0 in maybe 30ft.

    ---------- Post added at 08:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by rbryant View Post
    The later style cast steel arms will help the ride compared to the stamped arms.

    The cast steel doesn't flex so all of the shock of a bump will transfer directly into the bushing instead of the rest of the suspension.

    The rigidity of the arm was the reason for the change from stamped dual pivot to cast dual pivot. It was aimed at making a more comfortable ride in the heavier cars. A friend of mine knew the designer and had a conversation with him about it.

    -Rich
    Kinda like the bracing they added to the stub strut arms on the early caravans. It controls the wheel better which in turn gives a better ride because you're not getting secondary vibrations.

    Another example, a friend had an 85 Laser with Koni's and Eibachs. The people who sat in the rear always had their head hitting the roof over every bump. We built a rear shock tower bar triangulated into the floor and from then on no one banged their head. Why? because the suspension was moving like it was designed too instead of the body flexing and throwing the passengers up into the roof. You could even feel the huge difference rolling into driveways.

  7. #27
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    You do not have to change knuckles to use the dual pivot arms. And your wheels will get moved moved forward regardless of which style you use. Stamped can use the original swaybar, if you go cast you will need a cast-style swaybar.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

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  8. #28
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff 135sohc's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Frank there was a 93 P body in the Brandywine yard at Oakville. Its been a few months since I was last there so it maybe gone now. Only thing I dont know about is how much that fat slug behind the counter is gonna want for it.... They wanted $100 for an electric fan I could buy new for $60 from the dealership.

  9. #29
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Heh, sounds like you're yarding in my neighbourhood.... "How much for a caravan rad?" "$100" "PFFFFFT" "I know what they're worth!" "So do I, see yah." (Went and bought one new for $80)
    DD1: '02 T&C Ltd, 3.8 AWD. DD2: '15 Versa Note SV, replacing.. DDx: '14 Versa Note SV << freshly killded :( ....... Projects: '88 Voyager 3.0, Auto with shift kit, timing advance, walker sound FX muffler on 15" pumpers wrapped in 215/65/R15 H rated Nexens.... and a '95 phord escort wagon PnP head << Both may need to go :( ..... I like 3.0s ... so??? ... stop looking at me like I've got two heads!

  10. #30
    Heroes never die, they just reload! Turbo Mopar Staff Frank's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Grrr. So even a stamped set will move my wheels forward? How bad?
    Frank Katzenberger
    Squirrel Performance - Home of the best turbo calc!!!
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    91 Daytona Shelby - It is getting there

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    94 Bronco 302 XLT - Shorty Headers, 3" exhaust, cold air intake, & Soft top



    "... to get the best out of it, you have to go beyond the line. Where bravery becomes insanity. Shall I turn into this hairpin bend at a 100mph? Why not!"



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  11. #31
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Not bad, it'll still fit. On my Daytona when I swapped, 205/60/16's rubbed, 205/55/16's didn't. It only moves them a small amount.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  12. #32
    turbo addict Pat's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    For reference, I run early knuckles with a cast arm dual pivot K frame on the ScAries. It did move the wheels forward a hair, but nothing noticeable. For what it is, the car handles awesome.

    I wouldn't worry about it.

  13. #33
    Heroes never die, they just reload! Turbo Mopar Staff Frank's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    For reference, I run early knuckles with a cast arm dual pivot K frame on the ScAries. It did move the wheels forward a hair, but nothing noticeable. For what it is, the car handles awesome.

    I wouldn't worry about it.
    You have any of that in your garage?
    Frank Katzenberger
    Squirrel Performance - Home of the best turbo calc!!!
    http://www.squirrelpf.com


    91 Daytona Shelby - It is getting there

    87 Shelby CSX #418 - Near stock is a good thing!

    94 Bronco 302 XLT - Shorty Headers, 3" exhaust, cold air intake, & Soft top



    "... to get the best out of it, you have to go beyond the line. Where bravery becomes insanity. Shall I turn into this hairpin bend at a 100mph? Why not!"



    Visit the new Knowledge Center today!

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  14. #34
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff 135sohc's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    You have any of that in your garage?
    I have a set of cast arms you can have for free.

  15. #35
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    I have the 11" brakes too,
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  16. #36
    Heroes never die, they just reload! Turbo Mopar Staff Frank's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    I have the 11" brakes too,
    I don't want to upgrade the knuckles and brakes. I may upgrade the pads, but need to figure out which ones. I have am pushing 4.5 years on these brakes.
    Frank Katzenberger
    Squirrel Performance - Home of the best turbo calc!!!
    http://www.squirrelpf.com


    91 Daytona Shelby - It is getting there

    87 Shelby CSX #418 - Near stock is a good thing!

    94 Bronco 302 XLT - Shorty Headers, 3" exhaust, cold air intake, & Soft top



    "... to get the best out of it, you have to go beyond the line. Where bravery becomes insanity. Shall I turn into this hairpin bend at a 100mph? Why not!"



    Visit the new Knowledge Center today!

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  17. #37
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    I don't want to upgrade the knuckles and brakes. I may upgrade the pads, but need to figure out which ones. I have am pushing 4.5 years on these brakes.
    They are off my 89 Daytona I am parting out, so they match the stamped control arms, which the car has too. You NEED 11" brakes,
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  18. #38
    turbo addict Pat's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    You have any of that in your garage?
    Unfortunately, I don't. No extra K frames lying around these days.

  19. #39
    Heroes never die, they just reload! Turbo Mopar Staff Frank's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Quote Originally Posted by 135sohc View Post
    I have a set of cast arms you can have for free.
    I may hit you up on that if I can reasonably find a k-frame...

    ---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    For reference, I run early knuckles with a cast arm dual pivot K frame on the ScAries. It did move the wheels forward a hair, but nothing noticeable. For what it is, the car handles awesome.

    I wouldn't worry about it.
    Did you have to do anything special with ball joints or anything?
    Frank Katzenberger
    Squirrel Performance - Home of the best turbo calc!!!
    http://www.squirrelpf.com


    91 Daytona Shelby - It is getting there

    87 Shelby CSX #418 - Near stock is a good thing!

    94 Bronco 302 XLT - Shorty Headers, 3" exhaust, cold air intake, & Soft top



    "... to get the best out of it, you have to go beyond the line. Where bravery becomes insanity. Shall I turn into this hairpin bend at a 100mph? Why not!"



    Visit the new Knowledge Center today!

    Check out the one and only Shelby Dodge Registry!

  20. #40
    turbo addict Pat's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Pivot K-Frame on '87 CSX

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    I may hit you up on that if I can reasonably find a k-frame...

    ---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:48 PM ----------



    Did you have to do anything special with ball joints or anything?
    Can't say for certain if I should have, but I can tell you I didn't! :-)

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