Drag Racing - Front Swaybar? Or no Front Swaybar?

[ShelGame]

Drag racers - do you run a front swaybar? or not? Why or why not?

I've been working on end-linking my front swaybar, but now I also want to take a bunch of weight out of the car. So, I'm thinking about just deleting it completely. So, I'd like ot hear from those that have tried racing without it.

By my estimation, the front swaybar + hardware weighs about 22lb.

[turbo2point2]

I've been running without a sway bar for 10 years. No issues at all. Ditch it!

[ShelGame]

I've been running without a sway bar for 10 years. No issues at all. Ditch it!

What kind of weight balance do you have across the fronts? Pretty even? Last time I had my car on corner scales it was about 5lbs heavy on the driver side (IIRC). I tried shimming the swaybar to even them out, but that just made the drivers side spin worse (even with a PG in the diff). Now, there's no 'extra' pre-load in it.

I guess it's easy enough to take out, and I'm going to the track this weekend for testing anyway...

[turbovanman²]

I would say yes, as it helps/limit the front end from lifting. ^^^ above has a purpose built race car,

[ShelGame]

I would say yes, as it helps/limit the front end from lifting. ^^^ above has a purpose built race car,

Yeah, but I want to free up the front end, IE let it lift. Hence the reason I was end-linking everything in the first place.

And, this is a purpose-built race-car, too. Just not as fast as Brian's...

It's got stickers and stuff, see below...

[turboshad]

I would say yes, as it helps/limit the front end from lifting. ^^^ above has a purpose built race car,

How does a sway bar, also know as an anti roll bar, limit the front end from lifting? Through bushing friction? A sway bar is designed to limit body roll by effectively increasing the spring rate of your outside wheel. For drag racing it has no purpose unless you do something like Stramer or you need it to keep your broken control arm together like Reeves, or was that Shadow.

[ShelGame]

How does a sway bar, also know as an anti roll bar, limit the front end from lifting? Through bushing friction? A sway bar is designed to limit body roll by effectively increasing the spring rate of your outside wheel. For drag racing it has no purpose unless you do something like Stramer or you need it to keep your broken control arm together like Reeves, or was that Shadow.

I think the stock swaybar can in fact keep the front end from lifting due to the bushing style ends.

I know when I had my van up in the air with no knuckles or anything on it (changing sway bar bushings, struts, and springs), it was very hard to move the control arms up or down from where they wanted to hang. I had to push them down -hard- just to get the knuckle back on. of course, that was new polybushings on the swaybar. So, preventing that 'bind' was my original intent behind end-linking the front bar.

[Pat]

I think the stock swaybar can in fact keep the front end from lifting due to the bushing style ends.

I know when I had my van up in the air with no knuckles or anything on it (changing sway bar bushings, struts, and springs), it was very hard to move the control arms up or down from where they wanted to hang. I had to push them down -hard- just to get the knuckle back on. of course, that was new polybushings on the swaybar. So, preventing that 'bind' was my original intent behind end-linking the front bar.

That's because the stock bar set up has a ton of bind in it, which actually reduces it's effectiveness as an actual anti roll bar. I've run with and without a sway bar and my ST's have been fairly similiar. In the Aries, my best ST with a bar is 1.64, best without is 1.66. For a dedicated drag car, I'd run without and drop the weight.

[turboshad]

Ya, that's all I could think of. So really a poorly designed/cheap sway bar system can help with front lift when drag racing.

[ShelGame]

Ya, that's all I could think of. So really a poorly designed/cheap sway bar system can help with front lift when drag racing.

Can help prevent it, you mean. In this case, I'm not so worried about lift. I actually want to free things up a bit...

[turbovanman²]

Yeah, but I want to free up the front end, IE let it lift. Hence the reason I was end-linking everything in the first place.

And, this is a purpose-built race-car, too. Just not as fast as Brian's...

It's got stickers and stuff, see below...

True but his is a REAL race car,

Why do you want it to lift? Lifting changes the toe and reduces the contact patch, this isn't RWD,

---------- Post added at 02:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:35 PM ----------

How does a sway bar, also know as an anti roll bar, limit the front end from lifting? Through bushing friction? A sway bar is designed to limit body roll by effectively increasing the spring rate of your outside wheel. For drag racing it has no purpose unless you do something like Stramer or you need it to keep your broken control arm together like Reeves, or was that Shadow.

It still binds up the front end, whether its going up or down, it still acts on the control arms,

[ShelGame]

True but his is a REAL race car,

Why do you want it to lift? Lifting changes the toe and reduces the contact patch, this isn't RWD, [COLOR="Silver"]

I don't necessarily want it to lift. But, I want it to be free to move a little.

Toe shouldn't change with lift; camber, for sure. But, I already have the car setup for correct camber with the front end lifted. I do need to double check it though...

[thedon809]

I once tightened down the sway bar bolts on the RF control arm when it was in the air. When I put the car back down, the passenger side was jacked way up and it wouldn't go down until I loosened the bolts.

[roachjuice]

It's got stickers and stuff, see below...

Lolz.

[turbo2point2]

What kind of weight balance do you have across the fronts? Pretty even? Last time I had my car on corner scales it was about 5lbs heavy on the driver side (IIRC). I tried shimming the swaybar to even them out, but that just made the drivers side spin worse (even with a PG in the diff). Now, there's no 'extra' pre-load in it.

I guess it's easy enough to take out, and I'm going to the track this weekend for testing anyway...

It is pretty even, within 10-15 pounds i believe. I think you will like not having it there.

[ShelGame]

It is pretty even, within 10-15 pounds i believe. I think you will like not having it there.

It's off as of 5 minutes ago. Going to the track on Sunday, we'll see how it goes.

[turbovanman²]

I don't necessarily want it to lift. But, I want it to be free to move a little.

Toe shouldn't change with lift; camber, for sure. But, I already have the car setup for correct camber with the front end lifted. I do need to double check it though...

Toe changes with lift and dive, it has too. Its not as bad as the old school RWD cars but it does change, hence why blown shocks/struts cause accelerated tire wear.

It's off as of 5 minutes ago. Going to the track on Sunday, we'll see how it goes.

Of course let us know what you find out,

[GLHNSLHT2]

I say add spherical end links.

[ShelGame]

I say add spherical end links.

Your pics of your conversion was my inspiration for doing that. I was about halfway done (the bar ends are a ----- to drill). Now, I just decided to ditch, at least to try...

[BadFastGTC]

I tried a shimmed bar like Gus had done, smaller bar, smaller yet hollow bar, and no bar. Take it off for a dedicated race car.