Shelby Lancer #79 1st Dyno results

[glhs875]

Played with cam timing this morning and here are my final #'s for now. I am t a total of 5 degrees retarded on my cam.

My car made 374.7 whp @ 27psi with a/f's 11.2-11.4

That is great power/nice curve! I honestly would of thought the HP peak would of been at a higher RPM with 5 degrees of retard though! This was with the custom Delta cam? Your car should run really good set like this!

[turboshelbys]

That is great power/nice curve! I honestly would of thought the HP peak would of been at a higher RPM with 5 degrees of retard though! This was with the custom Delta cam? Your car should run really good set like this!

Thank you sir.

Yes sir still have the custom cam in.

I made a bunch of pulls today to see what exactly might be going on. One thought is that my intercooler is stacking/bottling up. If I give it more boost it actually makes less power. I am thinking that right where I am at is where the max efficiency is for that intercooler. This could partially explain why the max hp and trq are hitting at the close to the same spot. Maybe my custom cam is holding me back. Truthfully, I really do not care about that at this point. I will dive into all of that later.

From the get go I was just trying to show my results on my car. I highly doubt anyone will build their exact car like mine. If anyone does feel free to give me a ring and I will tell you everything I have done. I guess I should has started my thread like this:

INDIVIDUAL RESULTS MAY VARY

What I would like to see is people post some of their actual #'s to see where I am at in relation to other 8v 2.2's. Am I on the low, high, or even side hp/trq level where I am at? That would be useful information to me and the forums I believe.

[glhs875]

Thank you sir.

Yes sir still have the custom cam in.

I made a bunch of pulls today to see what exactly might be going on. One thought is that my intercooler is stacking/bottling up. If I give it more boost it actually makes less power. I am thinking that right where I am at is where the max efficiency is for that intercooler. This could partially explain why the max hp and trq are hitting at the close to the same spot. Maybe my custom cam is holding me back. Truthfully, I really do not care about that at this point. I will dive into all of that later.

From the get go I was just trying to show my results on my car. I highly doubt anyone will build their exact car like mine. If anyone does feel free to give me a ring and I will tell you everything I have done. I guess I should has started my thread like this:

INDIVIDUAL RESULTS MAY VARY

I think you are doing great! I predict you breaking the 400 WHP mark very soon! LOL on the last statement! Don't need to offend anyone these days! Is that even possible!?

[turboshelbys]

LOL on the last statement! Don't need to offend anyone these days! Is that even possible!?

AWESOME

[Vigo]

What I am getting so salty about is how you comment. it seems every time I post up a number/graph you have something to say negative or doubtful about it.


I post the graphs so people can see where my car is doing what and to show I am not hiding anything or making up #s.

Well, I can honestly say i'm not trying to rile you. I will probe the most at whatever situations i think i can learn from if i get just a LITTLE more info, and yours happened to be one of them. I feel like as long as the discussion is bringing out new/more complete info, it's for the best, but I understand I can rub you the wrong way and I don't intend to do that anymore. I'm not here to be a ---- talker, i just can't stand to see something i dont understand and let it lie when i should be trying to figure it out.

This time i can actually see the shift in the powerband from 3 to 5 degrees cam retard, and the peak power actually moved and held on pretty strong to the end of the pull. Nice!

[turboshelbys]

Well, I can honestly say i'm not trying to rile you. I will probe the most at whatever situations i think i can learn from if i get just a LITTLE more info, and yours happened to be one of them. I feel like as long as the discussion is bringing out new/more complete info, it's for the best, but I understand I can rub you the wrong way and I don't intend to do that anymore. I'm not here to be a ---- talker, i just can't stand to see something i dont understand and let it lie when i should be trying to figure it out.

This time i can actually see the shift in the powerband from 3 to 5 degrees cam retard, and the peak power actually moved and held on pretty strong to the end of the pull. Nice!

Thanks, I know I can get real snappy really quick. that's the problem being a type A personality. I will try to post up more info, there is a lot to look at and I was just excited about the hp increase

[Ondonti]

I would love to see a dyno with intercooler change without other changes.

[glhs875]

I would love to see a dyno with intercooler change without other changes.

That would nice to see and be very educational if pressure drop data was also taken!

[turboshelbys]

I would love to see a dyno with intercooler change without other changes.

Like this

[IMG][/IMG]

[glhs875]

Awesome! ^^^^

[Vigo]

Very interesting... Some new results to look forward to?

[turboshelbys]

Very interesting... Some new results to look forward to?

Not really. The first W/A intercooler I had on was 11 X 9.5 X 3.5 with 2.5 in and out. Fitment and cooling were great, but airflow seemed to be stacking up and turbo seemed to be taking longer to spool.

I swapped my original A/A intercooler back on and everything went back to normal. Although after just a couple runs heat soak quickly set in even with extra fans on it. I was seeing 350 degrees in and 200ish degrees out.

Swapped to the bigger W/A intercooler, 12 X 12 X 4.5 with 3.0 in and out, airflow was better and turbo spooled better. Temp in was 350 degrees and 130ish out. It's definitely doing its job, but I think its at it maximum airflow. I have the same one on my Daytona and it seems to confirm my thoughts on the capability of the flow. Once we hit 26-27 psi things seemed to stack up and boost and power were getting harder to come by. As I was more than happy with the power the Daytona made, we really didn't push any harder.

[glhs875]

Not really. The first W/A intercooler I had on was 11 X 9.5 X 3.5 with 2.5 in and out. Fitment and cooling were great, but airflow seemed to be stacking up and turbo seemed to be taking longer to spool.

I swapped my original A/A intercooler back on and everything went back to normal. Although after just a couple runs heat soak quickly set in even with extra fans on it. I was seeing 350 degrees in and 200ish degrees out.

Swapped to the bigger W/A intercooler, 12 X 12 X 4.5 with 3.0 in and out, airflow was better and turbo spooled better. Temp in was 350 degrees and 130ish out. It's definitely doing its job, but I think its at it maximum airflow. I have the same one on my Daytona and it seems to confirm my thoughts on the capability of the flow. Once we hit 26-27 psi things seemed to stack up and boost and power were getting harder to come by. As I was more than happy with the power the Daytona made, we really didn't push any harder.

Seems funny how something like an intercooler can be so restrictive to making power with forced inducted setups when a set throttle body size seems to not be as much of a limiting factor even if said intercooler out flows the TB used. Or is it?

[turboshelbys]

Seems funny how something like an intercooler can be so restrictive to making power with forced inducted setups when a set throttle body size seems to not be as much of a limiting factor even if said intercooler out flows the TB used. Or is it?

I believe Gary D did a study on this years back. From what I remember the TB was not a problem flowing, he also deemed that 2.5" intercooler piping was more than adequate.

[mopar-tech]

I believe Gary D did a study on this years back. From what I remember the TB was not a problem flowing, he also deemed that 2.5" intercooler piping was more than adequate.

I think it was Gus who did some work with throttle bodies, I can say that 2.5" intercooling plumbing will support in excess of 400 hp without much of a problem.

FYI comparing "flow rates" provided by two different (or more) sources is a fools errand to some degree.

[glhs875]

Personally I look at picking the TB size in CFM potential for the engine/combo being N/A instead of being forced inducted. Similar to picking a certain size Carb for a certain combo.

Point being, Max RPM/HP potential of the combo needs to be considered in picking a TB size. Sure 400WHP can be made as long as peak torque is 400WHP and close to 5250RPM as well, but yet the TB size may be too small to make good power above 6K! Do the math and you may be rewarded! Just saying!

[turboshelbys]

I think it was Gus who did some work with throttle bodies, I can say that 2.5" intercooling plumbing will support in excess of 400 hp without much of a problem.

FYI comparing "flow rates" provided by two different (or more) sources is a fools errand to some degree.

Thanks Gary, I couldn't remember if it was you or Gus, but it was/is awesome information for sure.

Its funny because I have followed both you and Gus's paths and have made/posted some awesome results and yet still get questioned and have many disbelievers. The funny thing is that I am not rewriting turbo dodge lore, just copying what has been done and proved 15+ years ago. I personally think if people would just stop trying to do the math and physics and just bolt the shi! on and spin that damn thing, I believe we would have a lot more fast TD's running around.

[glhs875]

Thanks Gary, I couldn't remember if it was you or Gus, but it was/is awesome information for sure.

Its funny because I have followed both you and Gus's paths and have made/posted some awesome results and yet still get questioned and have many disbelievers. The funny thing is that I am not rewriting turbo dodge lore, just copying what has been done and proved 15+ years ago. I personally think if people would just stop trying to do the math and physics and just bolt the shi! on and spin that damn thing, I believe we would have a lot more fast TD's running around.

There is always room for improvement! The right math can be VERY helpful! This is where we part ways!

[glhs875]

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[turboshelbys]

There is always room for improvement! The right math can be VERY helpful! This is where we part ways!

I agree, there is always room for improvement. What I am getting at, is that many people overthink how to build their cars and then they don't get the expected results and give up. When you start talking about the 400hp+ club in these cars, how many TD's are really on that list? I agree when you get to that plateau there is always more to look at and that's when the math and such can help. I have even posted just that in this thread. I believe I am out of intercooler at this point. While it's cooling fantastically, I don't think I can push anymore boost thru it efficiently.

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