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Thread: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

  1. #201
    turbo addict
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    Well, there are some good reasons to use time on the x-axis...this isn't one of them! LOL

  2. #202
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    Well the boostbutton 3 bar tune is in. Found out my knock sensor was bad with the knock indication light in the new tune. It was retarding timing at 10psi even when I set the base timing at 4* BTDC lol. Swapped out the sensor, and it hauls!




  3. #203
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    I have enjoyed watching your vans progression, it's awesome. I also had a knock sensor that was bad. I look forward to more vids

  4. #204
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    Went to Sonoma Raceway, and ran a 14.04 at 95.26mph. 2.146 60ft. This is with the 3 bar tune, open 3" downpipe, and 23psi???

    On 17psi on a 2 bar tune, it ran a 14.5 at 93mph at the same track with the stock exhaust. Before at woodburn oregon it ran a 14.17 at 97.06 with the same setup, minus the PT Lifters. What?!?! The lifters were the only change.

    I feel it should easily be trapping over 100 at 23psi and an open downpipe, when it trapped 97 on the stock exhaust and 17psi. Could the lifters be slowing it down, or could the track have slower readouts for some reason?

  5. #205
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    What is your plug gap? cam and spark timing set right?
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  6. #206
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    Were you running race gas?

    Who's 3 bar cal? Not to knock shelgame as he's done great things for the community but he's always very very conservative with the timing in his calibrations. I added 15 degrees of timing in certain points in the cal and it REALLY woke my engine up after that. To his credit he did have the fueling spot on though, pretty much 11:1 at WOT the whole way through the powerband.

  7. #207
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    .35 gap, 12 degrees, and cam timing spot on. 5 gallons of 91 mixed with 3 gallons of 93.

    It ran slower even on the 2 bar tune at Sonoma vs PIR, when the only thing I changed were the lifters and the track.

    I'm pretty sure its the track as it always has around a 10mph headwind, and the 30ft^2 van with a .43 Cd doesn't take kindly to it.
    Last edited by jefo; 07-09-2015 at 05:25 PM.

  8. #208
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    why are you now racing at sonoma?

  9. #209
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    I moved back for summer as I just graduated from College.

  10. #210
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    At 23 PSI on a stock head and 92 octane I wouldn't be surprised if you were detonating. I'd check the plugs. If you weren't, that just shows what I said earlier that there's way not enough timing advance in the cal. You really don't want to run more than 20 PSI on a stock head on pump gas, unless you're running a G head on swirl pistons.

    There's nothing wrong with the PT lifters as long as you shimmed them properly.

    Tighten the gap to .030 as well, the stock ignition system can't handle .035 with over 20 PSI boost. I personally run .028 gap with no issues. Are you running champion RN9YC's?

    The headwind will hurt, sure....but with the changes you should be making like 40+ more HP. Can you give a rundown of your current setup?

  11. #211
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    Quote Originally Posted by moparzrule View Post
    At 23 PSI on a stock head and 92 octane I wouldn't be surprised if you were detonating. I'd check the plugs. If you weren't, that just shows what I said earlier that there's way not enough timing advance in the cal. You really don't want to run more than 20 PSI on a stock head on pump gas, unless you're running a G head on swirl pistons.

    There's nothing wrong with the PT lifters as long as you shimmed them properly.

    Tighten the gap to .030 as well, the stock ignition system can't handle .035 with over 20 PSI boost. I personally run .028 gap with no issues. Are you running champion RN9YC's?

    The headwind will hurt, sure....but with the changes you should be making like 40+ more HP. Can you give a rundown of your current setup?
    FWIW I ran dozens of passes at 28psi with bone stock swirl head and cast pistons, no problems. Gas was 91 octane with a bottle of 104+ (brand) octane booster in it. Not sure if the booster helped or not. Car ran great and made as much power as I think was possible given the totally stock manifolds. Tune was FWDP stage 5. Huge intercooler. AFRS in the high 10's low 11's.

    I've also cracked quite a few pistons but I can trace all of them to other problems like major electrical faults, leaving the boost controller disconnected, and, most annoyingly, having a stretched throttle cable end up allowing 20+ psi for prolonged periods with AFR's well into the mid teens. I dont think I've ever directly traced a cracked piston to a properly running build at 20+ psi.

  12. #212
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    Interesting, I would still check the plugs though.

  13. #213
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    Its a 2.5, stock bottom end and head both recently refreshed, and stock cam.

    Exhaust side: Garett T2 turbo, ported exhaust manifold, swingvalve ported to 2.8", and an open 3" downpipe.
    Intake Side: Ported and reworked 1 piece, 52mm throttle body, 2.5" intercooler piping, Treadstone TRV1859 intercooler, and 3" intake with big filter.

    3 bar boostbutton cal, +40's. RNY9C. ~11 AFR

    I can't run lower than 23psi due to boost creep. The knock sensor light on the dash was coming on at the track, so I backed the timing down to ~6 degrees. Light still came on but the van trapped 2mph slower. Unplugged the knock sensor and it went faster, then bumped up the timing to 12* and it went faster still (the 95mph).

    So maybe false knock?

    Edit:

    I realized my fastest trap speed of 99mph (on 20psi ~12.5 afr) was on a 2bar computer (that doesn't reduce timing after 15psi), so this tune probably has way more mild timing than what the 2 bar had.
    Last edited by jefo; 07-10-2015 at 12:46 AM.

  14. #214
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    Is E85 available?

  15. #215
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    No unfortunately there isn't an e85 station remotely close to my house.

  16. #216
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    Sounds like you may have a bad knock sensor, but CHECK THE PLUGS to see if it really is knocking.

    I would put a whole 3'' exhaust on there so you don't have creep and turn boost down to 18-20 and see if you still get knock. If you still do get knock, it's gotta be a bad sensor UNLESS you have a bad lifter or a cracked lifter bore. Had that happen once, lifter bore cracked and it was throwing my knock sensor all out of whack. But you said it was a fresh head, did the machine shop pressure test and check for cracks?

    The creep may be being caused by not enough timing advance. I found this out when I was trying to tune my 4 bar cal on the dyno and boost was set to 12 but creeped over 20 by the end of the pull....and this is a 2.2L with a .63 stage 3 turbine lol. Turns out I needed a good 10-15 degrees more advance, and the retarded timing was causing fuel to be exploding inside the exhaust manifold causing massive creep. It may be doing this to your setup on a smaller level, because you really shouldn't have creep even with open downpipe on that setup.

    Also, like I said tighten the plug gap to .030'' as well.

  17. #217
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    What rpm is the light actually coming on at? Engines are most sensitive to detonation around the torque peak, so if it's coming on around 4000 rpm but not any higher, you can just turn down your boost controller until that part stops and let it creep to 23 on the high end if it's not picking up knock at higher rpms. I don't think you're creeping to 23 BEFORE 4000rpm, right?

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  18. #218
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    Do I have to check the plugs right after a hard pull? And I am looking for white specks on them correct?

    I did the PT lifter mod, as the drivetrain clacked badly, and its much more quiet but definitely not a sewing machine. Head was pressure checked.

    At the strip the light was coming on in 3rd and 4th gear, but oddly retarding the base timing 6 degrees had no effect on the light. It did make the van slower though.

    I have a 3" downpipe with a cutout, then the stock exhaust after that. If I close the cutout I get no creep of course.

  19. #219
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    Not necessarily, you can do some hard pulls close to home and just drove home real quick and then pull them. Black specs is minor detonation just blowing carbon off the top of the piston, white/grey specs means change something immediately lol but I doubt it's that bad.

  20. #220
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    Re: 89 Voyager 1/4 mile times are in!

    I made a boost leak tester, and found a leak on the turbo compressor. There is a nipple that was capped off, and the rubber cap split wide open, leaking as much air as the nipple could flow.

    Who knows how much that could affect power. I am going to check over everything (timing, compression, plugs) and add a catch can setup.

    I'll check the plugs tomorrow.

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