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Thread: 85 glh

  1. #41
    turbo addict
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    Re: 85 glh

    I removed all the moving parts and bearings, then tapped it for NPT thread and used an NPT plug for it.

  2. #42
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: 85 glh

    id put a hose barb on it and use it as a lower end vent.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  3. #43
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: 85 glh

    Appreciate the schooling!!

    Thanks
    Randy


    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    Here you go.

    TU 6 punk ceramic disc


    TU 4 punk feramic disc RACE ONLY CLUTCH, worn extremely fast, less than 5000 miles and it was worn down to the rivets.


    Used clutch, I think it is from relentless racing


    Spec stage 4 clutch


    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
    83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
    Edmonton,Alberta,Canada

  4. #44
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    Re: 85 glh

    Had to design a beefier new crank sensor bracket.





    Engine bay good to go.


    Injector resister, on/off idle solenoid


    E85 sensor


    Boost control solenoid and PCV blowby solenoid (opens at 0psi)


    Fuseblocks and PC680 battery





    I think all hardware install are done, now is just tuning left.

  5. #45
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: 85 glh

    id put a hose barb on it and use it as a lower end vent.
    .

    I did this with a fuel pump blockoff plate but i had to have a vertical run in the hose to keep it from blowing too much oil out under normal conditions. Probably wouldn't have that much splashage doing what you sugessted.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  6. #46
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    Re: 85 glh

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    id put a hose barb on it and use it as a lower end vent.
    Not needed as I have a 2 ports valve cover.


    Fully welded and balanced the crank pulley.





    I am able to run way more spark timing on E54 with Microsquirt than I did with E85 with Logic Module doing my 290whp dyno, and this is only my first try E54 ignition tune.



    Last edited by tryingbe; 10-17-2017 at 04:57 PM.

  7. #47
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: 85 glh

    Now that is interesting. On my 2.5 I was down to 1* total above 16 or so psi and below 4k rpm. I assume it's due to the more stable crank trigger, as you suggested. Not having play induced by the timing belt, oil pump gears and plastic riveted shutter wheel.
    Last edited by Force Fed Mopar; 10-19-2017 at 07:54 AM.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC
    2.5 TIII swap is here!

    Project LookOwt
    '91 Daytona ES, 61k original miles, Rick Lozier's old 3.0 nitrous car
    Back to basics, then the mods go back on....

  8. #48
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: 85 glh

    Are you getting ready to jump back on the dyno?
    Looking forward to hearing the results!
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.7786@113.04 mph! - Jan 15th, 2017 Fayetteville Dragway, NC)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  9. #49
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    Re: 85 glh

    Some boost data.


    HDi two button electronic boost controller
    T04B-V trim compressor wheel
    T04B compressor housing
    Custom actuator bracket
    Dodge Garrett center section
    Turbonetics standard T3 a/r .63 turbine housing
    Stage III turbine wheel
    Ceramic coated ATP ultimate wastegate housing
    Ceramic coated port exhaust manifold
    3 inch downpipe
    3 inch exhaust
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...=1#post1124260


    Boost starts, 0.1psi hits at 1554RPM in third gear.
    5psi hits at 2977RPM in third gear.
    10psi hits at 3629RPM in third gear.


    Boost Threshold, 24.1psi in third gear 4613rpm

    23.6psi in fourth gear at 3993RPM


    Boost Spike: Peak at 24.1psi then settle between 22.8psi - 23.1psi = ~1.3psi -1psi in third gear

    Boost creep: between .1psi to .3psi, so negligible.

    Boost Lag, 1.074 seconds from -3psi to 24.1psi in 3rd gear.

    Boost lag test done in third gear
    39.915 seconds since log started, 4475RPM, -3psi (vacuum)

    40.989 seconds since log started, 4973RPM, 24.1psi


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    Are you getting ready to jump back on the dyno?
    Looking forward to hearing the results!
    Will have to schedule a time off to do it, though, I want the weather to be a bit cooler first...

  10. #50
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    Re: 85 glh

    I've been asked about the knock system I use, so I thought I write it down.

    MS2/Microsquirt only accept knock sensor with a knock module, and most of the knock modules has only a output of 0-5V digital on/off. I wanted something more, and I found lilknockmeter.

    Features of lilknockmeter are:
    A set of LEDs from green to yellow to orange and red, giving you the severity of knocks (LED lights is adjustable via software)
    Audio jack output (use headphone to listen to knock!)
    0-5v on/off digital output
    0-5v analogue output
    Software to calibrate the lilknockmeter

    I was very happy to find lilknockmeter, you will not find another product with all these features and this low price! Product is made in California, great support from the Leonard, the lilknockmeter creator!

    I used the parts below for my install.

    A knock module call lilknockmeter, https://www.ebay.com/itm/Knock-senso...lTUcSv&vxp=mtr, made by Insane Import Performance LilKnockMeter 2 has two sensors for V6.
    a VW BOSCH knock sensor 0261231038 (3 wire knock sensor, signal, ground, and ground for the shielding)
    VW N90905502 m10x1.5 to m8x1.25 stud, $2-$3 at VW dealer
    M8x1.25 washer
    M8x1.25 nut
    3 wire BOSCH sensor connector, https://www.ebay.com/itm/B1-Rectangl...53.m2749.l2649

    Stock Chrysler knock sensor is mounted on the intake manifold between number 2 and number 3 runner.
    The knock sensor is now mounted at the AC bracket at the block between the 1st and 2nd cylinder.


    Lilknockmeter is wired up in the car with 12v, ground,0-5V analogue going to Microsquirt, and the shielded cable going to the knock sensor.

    My current lilknockmeter software settings are

    Frequency = 6.64kHz (I used this to calculate knock frequency https://www.phormula.com/KnockCalculator.aspx)
    Gain = 2.0
    Time = 240
    Threshold = 0500 (0 to 1024 range, corresponds to 0-5V, so 500 = 2.5V)
    Cylinder = 4

    Chrysler uses 0-5 V analogue setup, since I can only set up the LED come on at one voltage, I set it at 2.5V for now.
    Last edited by tryingbe; 10-26-2017 at 12:57 PM.

  11. #51
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: 85 glh

    That knock meter looks really promising. For guys not running ms3 and for 3.0l guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  12. #52
    Garrett booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 85 glh

    I like the fact that it has an audio output. Actually being able to hear what's triggering it during initial setup would give me confidence in it. It could even be recorded simultaneous to a datalog to help set it up. I remember someone on here saying they bought one of these a while back but hadn't really messed with it yet. Ondonti maybe? Pretty slick unit. Looks well worth the price. I'll probably grab one myself.

  13. #53
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: 85 glh

    oh wait, it doesnt have programmable levels for different RPM points? when i was looking at the user interface, i thought it had that. i guess its not as promising as i thought.

    ..... unless.....

    if you use the bosch wideband sensor in the stock location and it has frequency filtering like the TPIC texas instruments chip that really narrows down the frequency measured. so that the knock signal that you are picking up is significantly louder than the background noise at high rpm. and thats a maybe. then again, with audio out, you could test it pretty easily.

    listen to the engine with the headphones, set the threshold so you dont get knock at max rpm/max noise. then induce knock at a low rpm with part throttle, really low boost lots of timing advance. if it picks up knock then, then you should be ok.

    dont set it to the voltage of the stock tune. the stock sensor isnt actually outputting that voltage. its outputting an AC wave thats triggering the base of a transistor thats charging up a capacitor from the 0-5v power circuit of the ecu. the A/D samples that DC voltage thats stored in the capacitor at the appropriate time and thats the voltage thats defined in the knock vs rpm table in the stock cal.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  14. #54
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 85 glh

    Great work.
    John Laing

    "The sole condition which is required in order to succeed in centralizing the supreme power in a democratic community, is to love equality, or to get men to believe you love it. Thus the science of despotism, which was once so complex is simplified, and reduced . . . . to a single principle."
    -- Alexis de Tocqueville

    "One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary."
    --Ayn Rand

    "To evolve, you don't need a Constitution. All you need is a legislature and a ballot box . . . . things will evolve as much as you want. All of these changes can come about democratically; you don't need a Constitution to do that and it's not the function of a Constitution to do that."
    -- Justice Antonin Scalia

  15. #55
    Garrett booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 85 glh

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    oh wait, it doesnt have programmable levels for different RPM points? when i was looking at the user interface, i thought it had that. i guess its not as promising as i thought.

    ..... unless.....

    if you use the bosch wideband sensor in the stock location and it has frequency filtering like the TPIC texas instruments chip that really narrows down the frequency measured. so that the knock signal that you are picking up is significantly louder than the background noise at high rpm...
    I'm under the impression that the frequency setting is just that. An adjustable bandpass filter. What you hear on the headphones may or may not be exactly the same as what the software hears but either way you could still record the audio output. A program like Adobe Audition will be able to show you a color coded graph of the frequencies and their amplitudes. It should be easy to pinpoint the audio frequency of knock that way. Unless, like you said, background noise at the same frequency drowns it out. I imagine sensor location is the key. For tuning the spark map I would probably always wear the headphones anyway just for peace of mind but for spark retard you should be able to get it to trigger pretty reliably. Everyone's setups are going to vary in terms of when they see knock but it should occur around the same RPM/load every time for a given setup(unless you are loading the engine differently every time you drive for some reason). As long as you can, at least, get it dialed in for the area you're expecting knock to occur you should be in good shape and different levels for different RPM ranges shouldn't really be needed. I have a feeling that if the sensor placement is good you won't have to worry much about background noise though. At least that's my theory.

  16. #56
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    Re: 85 glh

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    oh wait, it doesnt have programmable levels for different RPM points? when i was looking at the user interface, i thought it had that. i guess its not as promising as i thought.

    The lilknockmeter is capable taking in an RPM input, but that function is not advised. Iím not sure what Leonard White (creator of lilknockmeter) has in mind when he made the RPM input so I canít speak for him.

    Lilknockmeter send 0-5v analogue signal to MS as soon as lilknockmeter is turned on, and I can program MS to look for certain voltage at a given RPM.

    Currently, the lilknockmeter LEDs come on at ONE voltage that I set it in the software. 2.5V.



    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    if you use the bosch wideband sensor in the stock location and it has frequency filtering like the TPIC texas instruments chip that really narrows down the frequency measured. so that the knock signal that you are picking up is significantly louder than the background noise at high rpm. and thats a maybe. then again, with audio out, you could test it pretty easily.

    Iím not using stock knock sensor location. Every other manufaltures seems to use the block close to the deck, so there is where I have my sensor. The lilknockmeter software let me select a frequency to focus on.



    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    listen to the engine with the headphones, set the threshold so you dont get knock at max rpm/max noise. then induce knock at a low rpm with part throttle, really low boost lots of timing advance. if it picks up knock then, then you should be ok.

    dont set it to the voltage of the stock tune. the stock sensor isnt actually outputting that voltage. its outputting an AC wave thats triggering the base of a transistor thats charging up a capacitor from the 0-5v power circuit of the ecu. the A/D samples that DC voltage thats stored in the capacitor at the appropriate time and thats the voltage thats defined in the knock vs rpm table in the stock cal.

    Thanks for the insight on the stock sensor, the stock voltage is just something to start me with. Leonard suggested to rev the engine in natural with no load and see what noise the knock sensor will picked up, I did and here is the result.





    33.9% was the highest noise with no load.

    Then, set the knock threshold to be slightly higher than the highest point.

    I need to get more seat time with the headphone and do some 6-7psi pull to determine what noise level is acceptable. Then I can tune my knock table better.
    Last edited by tryingbe; 11-01-2017 at 11:38 AM.

  17. #57
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    Re: 85 glh

    27.56 mpg on E54, mostly city.

    Best I ever got on octane 91 is 27 mpg all highway!

  18. #58
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: 85 glh

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    The lilknockmeter is capable taking in an RPM input, but that function is not advised. Iím not sure what Leonard White (creator of lilknockmeter) has in mind when he made the RPM input so I canít speak for him.

    Lilknockmeter send 0-5v analogue signal to MS as soon as lilknockmeter is turned on, and I can program MS to look for certain voltage at a given RPM.

    Currently, the lilknockmeter LEDs come on at ONE voltage that I set it in the software. 2.5V.






    Iím not using stock knock sensor location. Every other manufaltures seems to use the block close to the deck, so there is where I have my sensor. The lilknockmeter software let me select a freziaed to focus on.






    Thanks for the insight on the stock sensor, the stock voltage is just something to start me with. Leonard suggested to rev the engine in natural with no load and see what noise the knock sensor will picked up, I did and here is the result.





    33.9% was the highest noise with no load.

    Then, set the knock threshold to be slightly higher than the highest point.

    I need to get more seat time with the headphone and do some 6-7psi pull to determine what noise level is acceptable. Then I can tune my knock table better.
    oh yeah, i forgot how far back the MS had the knock volts vs rpm table.

    looks like it may work decent when tuned in.

    yeah its been said, 5-10% above no load noise is reasonable to set for knock depending on power levels.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  19. #59
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    Re: 85 glh

    Added a clutch switch for launch control/flat shift.

    Test fit revealed how easy it is to add the switch.





  20. #60
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: 85 glh

    Does antilag timing retard get activated with the clutch switch between shifts? Or only when staging at <x mph?
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.7786@113.04 mph! - Jan 15th, 2017 Fayetteville Dragway, NC)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

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